4 ms·

I agree with saying it as it is. Also: don't you think that this "system", whereby nobody is supposed to say what they really think, either in these interviews,

I agree with saying it as it is. Also: don't you think that this "system", whereby nobody is supposed to say what they really think, either in these interviews, or in giving references, is deeply counter-productive and demeaning to all concerned? Things did not always used to be this way. I don't care for the high sounding "rights" justifications. What about the most basic right of everyone to speak the truth as they see it? Clearly, it is better not to needlessly exaggerate any criticism. Nevertheless, it works both ways. If a leaving employee has only positive things to say, I know he is being disingenuous - and if some friends ask about him/her, I would actually be far less likely to recommend such an "a.se licker".

ashark 12y ago
A lot of the hiring process seems to be about making sure you'll write/say the correct lies. Look at common intro paragraphs for résumés. They're horse shit, and everyone knows it, but deviate much from the usual "dedicated team player who blah blah blah" and it goes in the bin. Doesn't matter that it's horse shit—it matters that you follow convention. "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" -> honest answer in 99% of cases is "I don't know, but odds are it'll be more or less the same place as now but slightly richer and fatter". You cannot say this. Doesn't matter that it's true. "What makes you want to work at our company?" -> honest answer in 99.9% of cases is "it pays enough money and seems less awful than my other options for performing activities that pay similar amounts of money". You really can't say this, and even a heavily buttered-up (that is, coated in bullshit) version isn't likely to pass muster. Lie or GTFO. Not telling the expected lies is a great way to end interviews, or never get them in the first place. The only actual purpose it can possibly serve, that I can think of, is to weed out some of the crazies and eccentrics very quickly. Someone more conspiracy-minded might come up with a bunch of stuff about how it ensures the applicant is sufficiently cowed by this horrible economic machine we all serve, but I suspect the situation is more of an accident than anything with much intention behind it. Yes, yes, there are exceptions, but this is the reality that the mass of employment-seekers face most of the time. Tell the right lies or go in the bin. One of the more shocking and difficult-to-cope-with elements of adult life if you're brought up to value honesty. Try to talk to people about it and many seem to become confused. "But that's just what you put on it. Here, you need to add something about how you're a self-starter." Sigh. [edit] I would add that the "why do you want to work here?" question carries the bonus stupidity/uselessness-factor in that no place where someone wanted to work for reasons other than just money and it being less shitty than the other options would ever feel the urge to ask it. SpaceX doesn't have to ask. They launch fucking rockets in to space. You sell (e.g.) Point of Sale software, so you ask because there's no obvious answer other than "you pay money, I want money". It's a question dripping with insecurity.
- lisper 12y ago
  > "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" My stock answer to this is to quote Carl Sagan and say that prophecy is a lost art. Maybe if enough people start giving that answer, employers will stop asking this incredibly stupid question.
skybrian 12y ago
What if the sanitized version is more accurate than the ranty version? Turning off your filters doesn't guarantee truth; it might just be more biased.
intopieces 12y ago
>What about the most basic right of everyone to speak the truth as they see it? You're certainly welcome to speak the truth as you see it, just don't be surprised when the people who won't like that truth refuse to help you along the way. Be careful not to confuse 'right' with 'obligation'.

ashark 12y ago

A lot of the hiring process seems to be about making sure you'll write/say the correct lies. Look at common intro paragraphs for résumés. They're horse shit, and everyone knows it, but deviate much from the usual "dedicated team player who blah blah blah" and it goes in the bin. Doesn't matter that it's horse shit—it matters that you follow convention. "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" -> honest answer in 99% of cases is "I don't know, but odds are it'll be more or less the same place as now but slightly richer and fatter". You cannot say this. Doesn't matter that it's true. "What makes you want to work at our company?" -> honest answer in 99.9% of cases is "it pays enough money and seems less awful than my other options for performing activities that pay similar amounts of money". You really can't say this, and even a heavily buttered-up (that is, coated in bullshit) version isn't likely to pass muster. Lie or GTFO. Not telling the expected lies is a great way to end interviews, or never get them in the first place. The only actual purpose it can possibly serve, that I can think of, is to weed out some of the crazies and eccentrics very quickly. Someone more conspiracy-minded might come up with a bunch of stuff about how it ensures the applicant is sufficiently cowed by this horrible economic machine we all serve, but I suspect the situation is more of an accident than anything with much intention behind it. Yes, yes, there are exceptions, but this is the reality that the mass of employment-seekers face most of the time. Tell the right lies or go in the bin. One of the more shocking and difficult-to-cope-with elements of adult life if you're brought up to value honesty. Try to talk to people about it and many seem to become confused. "But that's just what you put on it. Here, you need to add something about how you're a self-starter." Sigh. [edit] I would add that the "why do you want to work here?" question carries the bonus stupidity/uselessness-factor in that no place where someone wanted to work for reasons other than just money and it being less shitty than the other options would ever feel the urge to ask it. SpaceX doesn't have to ask. They launch fucking rockets in to space. You sell (e.g.) Point of Sale software, so you ask because there's no obvious answer other than "you pay money, I want money". It's a question dripping with insecurity.

lisper 12y ago
> "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" My stock answer to this is to quote Carl Sagan and say that prophecy is a lost art. Maybe if enough people start giving that answer, employers will stop asking this incredibly stupid question.

skybrian 12y ago

What if the sanitized version is more accurate than the ranty version? Turning off your filters doesn't guarantee truth; it might just be more biased.

intopieces 12y ago

>What about the most basic right of everyone to speak the truth as they see it? You're certainly welcome to speak the truth as you see it, just don't be surprised when the people who won't like that truth refuse to help you along the way. Be careful not to confuse 'right' with 'obligation'.