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> persecution that Nazis commenced right when they were able to, post January 1933 > Nazis starting to do what Hitler had promised to do, to start his actions

> persecution that Nazis commenced right when they were able to, post January 1933 > Nazis starting to do what Hitler had promised to do, to start his actions on the road to the Holocaust. Can you source those claims? I don't remember Hitler giving any orders to start a persecution of Jews, but I do remember mainstream holocaust historian Raul Hilberg saying under oath in a 1985 Toronto trial that there are no documents to source that claim, and that the Nazis conducted what they did through a "meeting of minds, a consensus mind-reading by a far-flung bureaucracy". Without documentation, this is conspiracy theory at best. No doubt the Nazis killed millions of Jews. But they did not conspire to do so. Let's make sure we teach people real history, not conspiracy theories with hidden pro-Israel agendas. The Nazis committed innocenticide at a large scale, but after 1970s WWII became all about the chosen people, and I thought we were all Africans. I'll preempt your calling me "anti-Semite" by saying I have nothing against any ethnicity (but I do have something against religions that say their people are better than other people, like the Nazi religion or the Judaism religion, in fact I'm against all religions) and I do not believe for a second that religious Jews conspire in any way, like Raul Hilberg believes the religious Nazis conspired through mind reading. That, my friends, is preposterous. Edit: If you read Raul Hilberg's book The Destruction of European Jews you'd learn that in 1933 the final solution was deportation. Only after 1941 is it ever seriously claimed by mainstream historians that the final solution became killing. So Judea declared war on Germany over their plans to deport Jews. This should put things in perspective and this is mainstream history no matter how uncomfortable for you it is to accept. PS: if you do come up with a source, please also address why Raul Hilberg did not consider that a source when he testified under oath in 1985. PPS: downvoters, could you please point out where I'm wrong or why am I deserving of downvoting?

ptaipale 12y ago
Having a Final Solution of "only" deporting Jews - after taking their possessions - and murdering just a few, for a warning or for a bit of fun, is not really that much more humane than the later industrial extermination into which things developed. Or let's say that making a point about difference there is just, well, gross. Starting to give sources to a revisionist, regarding Nazi persecution of Jews not only as retaliation for a "Judea against Germany" boycott "act of war", is much like starting to play chess with a flock of pigeons. There's no point.
- innguest 12y ago
  I want to make sure I read that correctly. You're saying deportation is not that much more humane than mass extermination? Wow. No comments there. There's a lot more evidence that the Third Reich had a Transfer Agreement with the Zionists than there is that the Nazis wanted to kill all Jews. And stop calling me a revisionist when all I argue is from mainstream sources. You don't give me sources because there aren't any, like the respectable mainstream holocaust historian, Raul Hilberg, said under oath in 1985.
  - ptaipale 12y ago
    Sources are not relevant for what you argue. Yes, Hillberg is a good source. You just misuse him. The start of this thread was a comment with a link that described how Hitler defied the bankers. That stuff is nonsense. The Nazi economic policy was bonkers, or would have been if it weren’t just a preparation for a war of conquest, which it was. It couldn’t have sustained in peace. It started with a massive monetary expansion by issuing the so-called "Mefo bills", and went on nicely for a few years. Expropriating the wealth of Jews – and non-Jewish but pacifist or socialist businessmen like Hugo Junkers – helped in the beginning, of course. In just five years after gaining power, the Nazis were annexing their neighbours and confiscating the wealth of Austria and Czechoslovakia, which enabled them to keep going for another year or two. "How Hitler defied bankers" was more a policy of expropriation – justified by hate and rancour – and then military expansion, rather than economics. Nazi Germany couldn’t operate in peace mode; it had to start a war of conquest and resort to slave labour to keep its economics working. Drawing parallels with "bankers" and "World Jewry" is a tool in the classic anti-Semitist kit. Hitler hated Jews, as he documented his idea of cleaning Jews away in Mein Kampf. It is disgusting to imply that this is sort of okay because originally Jews were just to be deported, not exterminated, and then Jews brought their misfortune on themselves by some "declaration of war" by "World Jewry" that then "provoked" the extermination. Yes, read Hillberg. Read Shirer’s The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, particularly chapter 7 about nazification of Germany. And please read the book to the very deserved end. Not everything that Nazis did was bad or crazy, but much of it was. The economics certainly was. "How Hitler defied the bankers" is no model to build an economic policy, unless you plan to make war.

ptaipale 12y ago

Having a Final Solution of "only" deporting Jews - after taking their possessions - and murdering just a few, for a warning or for a bit of fun, is not really that much more humane than the later industrial extermination into which things developed. Or let's say that making a point about difference there is just, well, gross. Starting to give sources to a revisionist, regarding Nazi persecution of Jews not only as retaliation for a "Judea against Germany" boycott "act of war", is much like starting to play chess with a flock of pigeons. There's no point.

innguest 12y ago
I want to make sure I read that correctly. You're saying deportation is not that much more humane than mass extermination? Wow. No comments there. There's a lot more evidence that the Third Reich had a Transfer Agreement with the Zionists than there is that the Nazis wanted to kill all Jews. And stop calling me a revisionist when all I argue is from mainstream sources. You don't give me sources because there aren't any, like the respectable mainstream holocaust historian, Raul Hilberg, said under oath in 1985.
- ptaipale 12y ago
  Sources are not relevant for what you argue. Yes, Hillberg is a good source. You just misuse him. The start of this thread was a comment with a link that described how Hitler defied the bankers. That stuff is nonsense. The Nazi economic policy was bonkers, or would have been if it weren’t just a preparation for a war of conquest, which it was. It couldn’t have sustained in peace. It started with a massive monetary expansion by issuing the so-called "Mefo bills", and went on nicely for a few years. Expropriating the wealth of Jews – and non-Jewish but pacifist or socialist businessmen like Hugo Junkers – helped in the beginning, of course. In just five years after gaining power, the Nazis were annexing their neighbours and confiscating the wealth of Austria and Czechoslovakia, which enabled them to keep going for another year or two. "How Hitler defied bankers" was more a policy of expropriation – justified by hate and rancour – and then military expansion, rather than economics. Nazi Germany couldn’t operate in peace mode; it had to start a war of conquest and resort to slave labour to keep its economics working. Drawing parallels with "bankers" and "World Jewry" is a tool in the classic anti-Semitist kit. Hitler hated Jews, as he documented his idea of cleaning Jews away in Mein Kampf. It is disgusting to imply that this is sort of okay because originally Jews were just to be deported, not exterminated, and then Jews brought their misfortune on themselves by some "declaration of war" by "World Jewry" that then "provoked" the extermination. Yes, read Hillberg. Read Shirer’s The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, particularly chapter 7 about nazification of Germany. And please read the book to the very deserved end. Not everything that Nazis did was bad or crazy, but much of it was. The economics certainly was. "How Hitler defied the bankers" is no model to build an economic policy, unless you plan to make war.