5 ms·

So basically .. we have the freedom of the internet ... buut we can't do business on the internet unless we hire 20 accountants 5 accounting managers, 2 layers

So basically .. we have the freedom of the internet ... buut we can't do business on the internet unless we hire 20 accountants 5 accounting managers, 2 layers and we will still be limited to just working within europe?

stuaxo 12y ago
Not really - just keep a table of the vat rates and pay the relevant one.
- nostromo 12y ago
  "Simply keep abreast of all tax laws and jurisdictions on planet Earth and pay accordingly. It couldn't be simpler..."
  - jessedhillon 12y ago
    It truly is complicated. If only there were some kind of service, to whom one would pay a service fee perhaps, and who in return could promote your work, then collect and aggregate small, recurring payments from international payers while properly computing the tax liability. Some kind of intermediary which enabled people to patronize artists, such that millions of artists around the world can simply pick up a check and focus on their work.
    - Kalium 12y ago
      Sounds like you have a new yc startup on your hands.
    - TillE 12y ago
      Heh. Seriously, this is (at least for me, and presumably for every other tiny indie developer) one of the huge attractions of storefronts like Steam and the iOS App Store: I'll just give you a license to sell my works, and you send me the royalties. I'll gladly give them a 30% cut to avoid all that bullshit. Incidentally, the Google Play store does not do this. Each developer is the merchant of record. I can only imagine that nearly every smaller business selling through Google has neglected to pay at least some sales taxes that they owe.
      - cannam 12y ago
        I think Google just changed that, in order to handle this new regulation?
- Silhouette 12y ago
  just keep a table of the vat rates and pay the relevant one. It isn't even close to that simple. It should be, but because of the record-keeping and reporting requirements, tax thresholds (or lack of them), general overheads of being as familiar with 28 states' tax systems rather than just one, and failure to provide sensible systems and advice by governments on a scale that would bring most businesses to failure, it just isn't. The EU's own web site about this specific issue -- which is widely cited by everyone up to and including national tax authorities in member states -- didn't even have correct VAT rates listed for all member states on 1 January 2015 when the new rules came in. I don't mean figuring out whether a business's particular digital product or service qualifies for a special rate in some states. I mean just the headline figures for the standard VAT rates in each state.
  - 7952 12y ago
    I guess the difficulty will depend a lot on how helpful the local tax agency are. They should publish that kind of information to help their countries business's.
    - Silhouette 12y ago
      It would certainly help to have basic things like a standard, reliable place to find all the relevant tax rates in a sensible machine-readable form and a way to get notifications automatically and in good time if any rate is going to change. That said, a lot of the madness appears to come directly from the EU rules themselves. Here in the UK, after dropping the ball initially, it seems like HMRC (the national tax collection agency) is trying to be helpful for smaller businesses who have been caught in the cross-fire between big businesses and governments. However, it's already clear that HMRC themselves have limited authority to act unilaterally, and ultimately they are required to enforce the tax rules given to them from above. The situation will only be fixed when European level government realises how badly it's screwed up, but right now they're more concerned with things like whether Greece is going to leave the Eurozone and potentially lead to a collapse in the Eurozone itself, so I'm not sure anyone is really listening as, ironically, they systematically undermine the very free trade that the predecessors of the EU were originally supposed to encourage.

stuaxo 12y ago

Not really - just keep a table of the vat rates and pay the relevant one.

nostromo 12y ago
"Simply keep abreast of all tax laws and jurisdictions on planet Earth and pay accordingly. It couldn't be simpler..."
- jessedhillon 12y ago
  It truly is complicated. If only there were some kind of service, to whom one would pay a service fee perhaps, and who in return could promote your work, then collect and aggregate small, recurring payments from international payers while properly computing the tax liability. Some kind of intermediary which enabled people to patronize artists, such that millions of artists around the world can simply pick up a check and focus on their work.
  - Kalium 12y ago
    Sounds like you have a new yc startup on your hands.
  - TillE 12y ago
    Heh. Seriously, this is (at least for me, and presumably for every other tiny indie developer) one of the huge attractions of storefronts like Steam and the iOS App Store: I'll just give you a license to sell my works, and you send me the royalties. I'll gladly give them a 30% cut to avoid all that bullshit. Incidentally, the Google Play store does not do this. Each developer is the merchant of record. I can only imagine that nearly every smaller business selling through Google has neglected to pay at least some sales taxes that they owe.
    - cannam 12y ago
      I think Google just changed that, in order to handle this new regulation?
Silhouette 12y ago
just keep a table of the vat rates and pay the relevant one. It isn't even close to that simple. It should be, but because of the record-keeping and reporting requirements, tax thresholds (or lack of them), general overheads of being as familiar with 28 states' tax systems rather than just one, and failure to provide sensible systems and advice by governments on a scale that would bring most businesses to failure, it just isn't. The EU's own web site about this specific issue -- which is widely cited by everyone up to and including national tax authorities in member states -- didn't even have correct VAT rates listed for all member states on 1 January 2015 when the new rules came in. I don't mean figuring out whether a business's particular digital product or service qualifies for a special rate in some states. I mean just the headline figures for the standard VAT rates in each state.
- 7952 12y ago
  I guess the difficulty will depend a lot on how helpful the local tax agency are. They should publish that kind of information to help their countries business's.
  - Silhouette 12y ago
    It would certainly help to have basic things like a standard, reliable place to find all the relevant tax rates in a sensible machine-readable form and a way to get notifications automatically and in good time if any rate is going to change. That said, a lot of the madness appears to come directly from the EU rules themselves. Here in the UK, after dropping the ball initially, it seems like HMRC (the national tax collection agency) is trying to be helpful for smaller businesses who have been caught in the cross-fire between big businesses and governments. However, it's already clear that HMRC themselves have limited authority to act unilaterally, and ultimately they are required to enforce the tax rules given to them from above. The situation will only be fixed when European level government realises how badly it's screwed up, but right now they're more concerned with things like whether Greece is going to leave the Eurozone and potentially lead to a collapse in the Eurozone itself, so I'm not sure anyone is really listening as, ironically, they systematically undermine the very free trade that the predecessors of the EU were originally supposed to encourage.