6 ms·

Swift compiler crashes

98 points by epaga 12y ago

pepijndevos 12y ago
why don't people just fix the compiler instead? Oh wait... Cool project though. I hope Apple takes notice.
- stefan_kendall3 12y ago
  Would you really want a frustrated hack from a sleep-deprived developer whose main job is not building compilers? I'd rather have a team of people paid to work on the issues full time handle the problems and build solutions, but maybe that's just me.
  - brudgers 12y ago
    Just to be circumspect, Apple's main business isn't building compilers. Their business unit which does so appears to derive some of its mandate from management's aversion to copyleft licensing. The business case for the Swift compiler is not to be the best alternative in a diverse market place but to provide tooling better than objective-C for bespoke iOS and OSX development. It falls somewhere between an inhouse application and a product for the open market. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I am only extending the line of reasoning in the comment up an abstraction layer.
  - StavrosK 12y ago
    I love how it's either a frustrated hack from a sleep-derived developer or a paid team. How about a patch from someone who's better at building compilers than the core team, even though he doesn't work for that company? Or how about the frustrated hack that's reviewed by the core team and still gets the feature out faster?
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Oh, so that's why all open source software is terrible?
  - krschultz 12y ago
    I would wager that most of the people that put the time to put these test cases together also get paid to handle these problems and build solutions. It's a giant misconception that open source is written by a bunch of hobbyists in their spare time on the weekends. Most open source gets written by professionals employed to build something, and the open source work is part and parcel to their day job. I send patches upstream to the open source libraries and tools I use all the time. This is all happening while my employer is paying me to be on the job, and in fact is heavily supported by my employer.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eatonphil 12y ago
Are there any good (not too ranty) posts on the state of the quality, usability, overall viability of the Swift compiler right now?
- melling 12y ago
  This probably falls on the rant side, but it does show that companies are using Swift: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/02/07/apples-new-swift-programming-language-takes-flight-with-getty-images-american-airlines-linkedin-and-duolingo http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/02/07/apples-new-swift-p...
- archagon 12y ago
  I've used Swift to make a basic keyboard framework[1] and I've found it to be extremely crashy and unstable, even in the latest versions. Also, certain Xcode features don't work in it (such as refactoring). Incredibly frustrating. With that said, I love the language, so it's almost worth the pain. [1]: https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-keyboard https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-keyboard
vinceyuan 12y ago
It's very interesting project. It seems that many people are interested in Swift. I am still using Objective-C for my App Store apps to avoid those kinds of weird things.
zx2c4 12y ago
Maybe I could get on board with this if the compiler were open source. Why are people so enthusiastic to give hours away for free to commercial projects?
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Because for many of us what matters are the customers, not the tooling religion.
  - StavrosK 12y ago
    How nice of you to dismiss the benefits of open source projects as "religion"!
    - quesera 12y ago
      Maybe I'm being too charitable, but I didn't read that as dismissal. Would you prefer "philosophy"?
      - StavrosK 12y ago
        It's not about philosophy or religion. There are clear benefits to having the source available, not the least of which being the fact that you can learn from the code.
        quesera 12y ago
        How you assess the balance of benefits versus costs of open source is a question which reaches into your philosophical beliefs. As for the distinctions between "philosophy" and "religion", well...that's a well-trodden path I won't go down. Open source is not free. It's charitable work, which might be purely altruistic or might be largely self-interested, or anywhere in between. For what it's worth, I do believe that the Swift frontend "should" be open sourced. I believe that I would benefit from that happening. I also believe that Apple would benefit, but I won't pretend that it wouldn't come with costs to Apple. Apple has decided, at the present time, that the costs outweigh the benefits. Their philosophical stance on open source does not persuade them to incur the costs, at this time -- and possibly never will, though we both hope otherwise.
bluk 12y ago
As just another app developer, I would like to thank the contributors for volunteering their time to help us all out.
rdsnsca 12y ago
Swift 1.2 was released in Xcode 6.3 beta today. PracticalSwift tweeted this : https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624 https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624 "5043 crashes before Xcode 6.3 - 1314 crashes fixed (26 %) - 2896 crashes now marked as dupes (57 %) + 10 regressions (0 %) = 843 left (17 %)"

98 points by epaga 12y ago

pepijndevos 12y ago

why don't people just fix the compiler instead? Oh wait... Cool project though. I hope Apple takes notice.

stefan_kendall3 12y ago
Would you really want a frustrated hack from a sleep-deprived developer whose main job is not building compilers? I'd rather have a team of people paid to work on the issues full time handle the problems and build solutions, but maybe that's just me.
- brudgers 12y ago
  Just to be circumspect, Apple's main business isn't building compilers. Their business unit which does so appears to derive some of its mandate from management's aversion to copyleft licensing. The business case for the Swift compiler is not to be the best alternative in a diverse market place but to provide tooling better than objective-C for bespoke iOS and OSX development. It falls somewhere between an inhouse application and a product for the open market. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I am only extending the line of reasoning in the comment up an abstraction layer.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  I love how it's either a frustrated hack from a sleep-derived developer or a paid team. How about a patch from someone who's better at building compilers than the core team, even though he doesn't work for that company? Or how about the frustrated hack that's reviewed by the core team and still gets the feature out faster?
- mikeash 12y ago
  Oh, so that's why all open source software is terrible?
- krschultz 12y ago
  I would wager that most of the people that put the time to put these test cases together also get paid to handle these problems and build solutions. It's a giant misconception that open source is written by a bunch of hobbyists in their spare time on the weekends. Most open source gets written by professionals employed to build something, and the open source work is part and parcel to their day job. I send patches upstream to the open source libraries and tools I use all the time. This is all happening while my employer is paying me to be on the job, and in fact is heavily supported by my employer.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

eatonphil 12y ago

Are there any good (not too ranty) posts on the state of the quality, usability, overall viability of the Swift compiler right now?

melling 12y ago
This probably falls on the rant side, but it does show that companies are using Swift: http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/02/07/apples-new-swift-programming-language-takes-flight-with-getty-images-american-airlines-linkedin-and-duolingo http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/02/07/apples-new-swift-p...
archagon 12y ago
I've used Swift to make a basic keyboard framework[1] and I've found it to be extremely crashy and unstable, even in the latest versions. Also, certain Xcode features don't work in it (such as refactoring). Incredibly frustrating. With that said, I love the language, so it's almost worth the pain. [1]: https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-keyboard https://github.com/archagon/tasty-imitation-keyboard

vinceyuan 12y ago

It's very interesting project. It seems that many people are interested in Swift. I am still using Objective-C for my App Store apps to avoid those kinds of weird things.

zx2c4 12y ago

Maybe I could get on board with this if the compiler were open source. Why are people so enthusiastic to give hours away for free to commercial projects?

pjmlp 12y ago
Because for many of us what matters are the customers, not the tooling religion.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  How nice of you to dismiss the benefits of open source projects as "religion"!
  - quesera 12y ago
    Maybe I'm being too charitable, but I didn't read that as dismissal. Would you prefer "philosophy"?
    - StavrosK 12y ago
      It's not about philosophy or religion. There are clear benefits to having the source available, not the least of which being the fact that you can learn from the code.
      - quesera 12y ago
        How you assess the balance of benefits versus costs of open source is a question which reaches into your philosophical beliefs. As for the distinctions between "philosophy" and "religion", well...that's a well-trodden path I won't go down. Open source is not free. It's charitable work, which might be purely altruistic or might be largely self-interested, or anywhere in between. For what it's worth, I do believe that the Swift frontend "should" be open sourced. I believe that I would benefit from that happening. I also believe that Apple would benefit, but I won't pretend that it wouldn't come with costs to Apple. Apple has decided, at the present time, that the costs outweigh the benefits. Their philosophical stance on open source does not persuade them to incur the costs, at this time -- and possibly never will, though we both hope otherwise.

bluk 12y ago

As just another app developer, I would like to thank the contributors for volunteering their time to help us all out.

rdsnsca 12y ago

Swift 1.2 was released in Xcode 6.3 beta today. PracticalSwift tweeted this : https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624 https://twitter.com/practicalswift/status/564919949995802624 "5043 crashes before Xcode 6.3 - 1314 crashes fixed (26 %) - 2896 crashes now marked as dupes (57 %) + 10 regressions (0 %) = 843 left (17 %)"