3 ms·

It is for sale, not on Google fonts http://www.typespec.co.uk/doves-type/ http://www.typespec.co.uk/doves-type/

colanderman 12y ago
He abhorred mechanical industry, and only by consigning the type to the Thames, he wrote in his diary, could he guarantee it would never be used in “a press pulled otherwise than by the hand and arm of man”. Well, that's sad.
- qnaal 12y ago
  now they're being printed and read without anything like a press being involved at all
- JasonFruit 12y ago
  Are you saying it's sad that he preferred that, or sad that his wishes won't be respected?
  - colanderman 12y ago
    More like that the only way we (collectively) can appreciate his work is via the very means that he feared so much as to destroy it in the first place. He'd likely say we're not appreciating it properly, only exploiting it.
nitrogen 12y ago
If the font is really that old, shouldn't it be out of copyright? Courts have held that faithful digital reproductions of public domain paintings are not copyrightable; could the same apply to fonts?
- Alex3917 12y ago
  Typefaces aren't copyrightable to begin with. When you license one, you're only licensing the ability to use the name.
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    Could you provide a reference for that so we can learn more? That sounds contrary to what I've read previously.
    - Alex3917 12y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protection_of_typefaces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protectio...
      - nitrogen 12y ago
        Interesting. It sounds like it's still possible for a font file to be copyrighted, though: However, in 1992, the US Copyright Office revisited its 1988 decision, and determined that the latest digital outline fonts in fact had elements that could be protected as software.[4] Since that time, the Office has accepted registration of copyright for digital vector fonts, such as PostScript Type 1, TrueType, and OpenType format files. This is part of the basis of the unpublished opinion in Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc., decided in 1998, wherein Judge Whyte found that Adobe Software held a valid copyright for its Utopia font and that it had been infringed by the defendant(s) in that case.
- gwern 12y ago
  Reading through the story and the site, it looks like it's not a good candidate for public domain because Robert Green arguably has not so much 'recovered' the font (what is he going to do, just scan the corroded century-old lead blocks?) as created an 'inspired by' reproduction, with enough creative input that it's not a good case for the Corel v Bridgman 'mechanical reproduction' exception - too much work and thought put into it. As cool as the physical recovery is (no one really tried before? what a delicious story), it doesn't seem to have affected his digital version much: > Since finding the characters, Green has made some minor adjustments to his Doves Type (mostly refining spacing and curves) but says he finally feels the project is complete.
- gwern 12y ago
  To expand more, from the Economist: > Mr Green has stared at it longer than most. For three years he has been crafting a digital reproduction of the famous face—the first fully usable Doves font since the original metal pieces were swallowed by the Thames. In search of perfect curves and precise serifs, he reckons he has redrawn it at least 120 times. “I’m not really sure why I started. In the end it took over my life.” > Mr Green has added to the original type. It had only 100-or-so characters; his digital revival boasts 350. That includes foreign oddities such as the Icelandic thorn and German esset, and modern essentials such as the euro sign and @ symbol. Whereas Doves existed in only one size, near to what is now called 16 point, its digital descendant scales as required. Is the type’s former owner now turning in his grave? “I think he’d admire my tenacity,” suggests Mr Green, hopefully. “Just so long as he doesn’t haunt me.”

He abhorred mechanical industry, and only by consigning the type to the Thames, he wrote in his diary, could he guarantee it would never be used in “a press pulled otherwise than by the hand and arm of man”. Well, that's sad.

qnaal 12y ago
now they're being printed and read without anything like a press being involved at all
JasonFruit 12y ago
Are you saying it's sad that he preferred that, or sad that his wishes won't be respected?
- colanderman 12y ago
  More like that the only way we (collectively) can appreciate his work is via the very means that he feared so much as to destroy it in the first place. He'd likely say we're not appreciating it properly, only exploiting it.

nitrogen 12y ago

If the font is really that old, shouldn't it be out of copyright? Courts have held that faithful digital reproductions of public domain paintings are not copyrightable; could the same apply to fonts?

Alex3917 12y ago
Typefaces aren't copyrightable to begin with. When you license one, you're only licensing the ability to use the name.
- nitrogen 12y ago
  Could you provide a reference for that so we can learn more? That sounds contrary to what I've read previously.
  - Alex3917 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protection_of_typefaces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protectio...
    - nitrogen 12y ago
      Interesting. It sounds like it's still possible for a font file to be copyrighted, though: However, in 1992, the US Copyright Office revisited its 1988 decision, and determined that the latest digital outline fonts in fact had elements that could be protected as software.[4] Since that time, the Office has accepted registration of copyright for digital vector fonts, such as PostScript Type 1, TrueType, and OpenType format files. This is part of the basis of the unpublished opinion in Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc., decided in 1998, wherein Judge Whyte found that Adobe Software held a valid copyright for its Utopia font and that it had been infringed by the defendant(s) in that case.
gwern 12y ago
Reading through the story and the site, it looks like it's not a good candidate for public domain because Robert Green arguably has not so much 'recovered' the font (what is he going to do, just scan the corroded century-old lead blocks?) as created an 'inspired by' reproduction, with enough creative input that it's not a good case for the Corel v Bridgman 'mechanical reproduction' exception - too much work and thought put into it. As cool as the physical recovery is (no one really tried before? what a delicious story), it doesn't seem to have affected his digital version much: > Since finding the characters, Green has made some minor adjustments to his Doves Type (mostly refining spacing and curves) but says he finally feels the project is complete.
gwern 12y ago
To expand more, from the Economist: > Mr Green has stared at it longer than most. For three years he has been crafting a digital reproduction of the famous face—the first fully usable Doves font since the original metal pieces were swallowed by the Thames. In search of perfect curves and precise serifs, he reckons he has redrawn it at least 120 times. “I’m not really sure why I started. In the end it took over my life.” > Mr Green has added to the original type. It had only 100-or-so characters; his digital revival boasts 350. That includes foreign oddities such as the Icelandic thorn and German esset, and modern essentials such as the euro sign and @ symbol. Whereas Doves existed in only one size, near to what is now called 16 point, its digital descendant scales as required. Is the type’s former owner now turning in his grave? “I think he’d admire my tenacity,” suggests Mr Green, hopefully. “Just so long as he doesn’t haunt me.”