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This is a great example of how investing in space can have returns for India. You often find comments in such articles saying that India should be focusing on p

by _nedR 12y ago

This is a great example of how investing in space can have returns for India. You often find comments in such articles saying that India should be focusing on poverty alleviation, healthcare, and infrastructure instead of investing in a space program. The problem with this strategy is that India (and developing countries in general) will always be playing catch-up to other countries; And without finding new sources of wealth, India will be hard pressed to obtain the necessary resources to uplift itself from poverty. Another thing these commenters fail to point out is that most of the countries that are rich today got where they are not by funding massive welfare programs, but by expanding into new frontiers in search of wealth. So the strategy today's developing countries should be following is to find new frontiers in science, technology, entrepreneurship to create wealth while in parallel trying to provide basic facilities to their people. Developing countries are in some ways like startups- Perpetually strapped for cash and resources, struggling to stay afloat and facing tough odds. The key for them is not to try to compete in areas where others already dominate, but to disrupt them (by trying drastically different approaches) or to seek new fields. Microsoft didn't try to compete with IBM in mainframes, they went for the then-burgeoning PC market. Apple is the world largest corporation not because it competes head-on with Microsoft in the PC market, but because it disrupted mobile. Similarly, space is a good avenue for India to compete in, where there are few incumbents and where India can exploit its natural advantages (such as it's eye for cost-saving and huge, inexpensive talent pool). Updated: Edited to removed lines that detract from main point.

gaadd33 12y ago
At the same doesn't India have significantly higher (like orders of magnitude) costs to criminal and civil prosecutions? I think that few nation states of successfully competed/emerged onto the world stage when at a disadvantage of that magnitude.
ulam2 12y ago
Not just that, satellites also help monitoring any weather abnormalities like cyclones. It helps if one could be warned.
higherpurpose 12y ago
This is why I'm still pissed off at Bill Gates' attack on Google [1] for trying to get Internet to Africa instead of just investing in curing malaria. What an incredibly short-sighted thing to say from someone who's apparently admired by many for his ideas. The people there get malaria because they are the Dark Ages in terms of living conditions. Bringing Internet there, allowing them to at least educate themselves, giving them the opportunity to find jobs online, or to create a local market is what will give them the chance to get out of poverty and afford better living conditions. The Internet will also help them live in more democratic societies where abuses by the government or criminal groups are exposed and dealt with. There are usually two schools of thought for dealing with Africa's poverty. One deals with the now, and it's about giving Africans free food, free cloths and free medicine - forever and ever, and yet it never seems to be enough. It merely helps some survive. And the other is about the future, and about trying to help people help themselves out of poverty. It's much more sustainable and it's about much more than just helping Africans survive. It's about getting them to catch-up to other countries in terms of living conditions, income and of course healthcare. T [1] - http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/09/bill-gates-misses-the-point-about-googles-balloons-and-malaria/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/09/bill-gate...
- maxerickson 12y ago
  This is a better link for the quote, it provides the question and the rest of what Gates said (it is linked from your link): http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-08-08/bill-gates-on-his-foundations-health-and-education-campaigns#p1 http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-08-08/bill-gates-o... One of Google’s (GOOG) convictions is that bringing Internet connectivity to less-developed countries can lead to all sorts of secondary benefits. It has a project to float broadband transmitters on balloons. Can bringing Internet access to parts of the world that don’t have it help solve problems? When you’re dying of malaria, I suppose you’ll look up and see that balloon, and I’m not sure how it’ll help you. When a kid gets diarrhea, no, there’s no website that relieves that. Certainly I’m a huge believer in the digital revolution. And connecting up primary-health-care centers, connecting up schools, those are good things. But no, those are not, for the really low-income countries, unless you directly say we’re going to do something about malaria. Google started out saying they were going to do a broad set of things. They hired Larry Brilliant, and they got fantastic publicity. And then they shut it all down. Now they’re just doing their core thing. Fine. But the actors who just do their core thing are not going to uplift the poor. His answer is arguably self serving, but given the question, I wouldn't go so far as to call it an attack, it's a "I don't think their approach will help really low income countries", not a "it's useless".
hackbinary 12y ago
I'm in favour of space and scientific exploration as the next guy, but it is incorrect to equate basic sanitation and education with a welfare state. It seems pretty obvious to me that providing everyone with clean water and sanitation will have far greater economic (and social) impact than giving a very small number people access to very advanced technology. India has some of the worst sanitation conditions in the world. You and I take clean drinking water and sewage treatment for granted. There is a pretty strong case that educating women, giving women control of their reproductive systems, and giving women good hygiene, sanitation, and toilet facilities is the best possible way to lift populations out of poverty. http://www.iamin.in/en/mumbai-north/news/mumbai-ranks-second-worst-sanitation-conditions-claims-new-survey-46547 http://www.iamin.in/en/mumbai-north/news/mumbai-ranks-second... http://www.globalpartnership.org/education http://www.globalpartnership.org/education http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/half-the-sky/economic-empowerment/ http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/half-the-sky/economic-emp... http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/01/09/3138901/rubio-marriage-poverty/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/01/09/3138901/rubio-ma... http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/our-policy-focus/ http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/our-policy-focus/ http://www.unwater.org/worldtoiletday http://www.unwater.org/worldtoiletday http://www.wateraid.org/uk/what-we-do/the-crisis/women http://www.wateraid.org/uk/what-we-do/the-crisis/women
- InclinedPlane 12y ago
  That's true, but it's a fallacy to imagine that India's science and rocketry programs somehow take resources away from sanitation efforts. In fact India's space program actually brings in revenue, as this story shows. More importantly, it provides inspiration to Indians, showing them what they are capable of doing. That, more than anything, is what is truly necessary to allow India to tackle the fundamental problems it faces.
- _nedR 12y ago
  I am not saying that India should take all its money from education and sanitation and put it in rockets and r&d. I am not speaking against welfare programs either. I am saying that the whole attitude that "India shouldnt have a space program until everyone has toilets" is self-defeating and means that India will never have a space program, and probably never have enough toilets either. The core of my point is that a small percentage of the budget should be kept aside for r&d in science and technology (and also to encourage entrepreneurship) because the returns from such endeavours can be tremendous. If you put x dollars to buy a toilet you will only ever get 1 toilet but if you invest x dollars wisely you could in time pay for a hundred toilets.
arpitverma007 12y ago
Exactly, this is what I always wanted to say.People working so hard here to remove this tag.

by _nedR 12y ago

gaadd33 12y ago

At the same doesn't India have significantly higher (like orders of magnitude) costs to criminal and civil prosecutions? I think that few nation states of successfully competed/emerged onto the world stage when at a disadvantage of that magnitude.

ulam2 12y ago

Not just that, satellites also help monitoring any weather abnormalities like cyclones. It helps if one could be warned.

higherpurpose 12y ago

This is why I'm still pissed off at Bill Gates' attack on Google [1] for trying to get Internet to Africa instead of just investing in curing malaria. What an incredibly short-sighted thing to say from someone who's apparently admired by many for his ideas. The people there get malaria because they are the Dark Ages in terms of living conditions. Bringing Internet there, allowing them to at least educate themselves, giving them the opportunity to find jobs online, or to create a local market is what will give them the chance to get out of poverty and afford better living conditions. The Internet will also help them live in more democratic societies where abuses by the government or criminal groups are exposed and dealt with. There are usually two schools of thought for dealing with Africa's poverty. One deals with the now, and it's about giving Africans free food, free cloths and free medicine - forever and ever, and yet it never seems to be enough. It merely helps some survive. And the other is about the future, and about trying to help people help themselves out of poverty. It's much more sustainable and it's about much more than just helping Africans survive. It's about getting them to catch-up to other countries in terms of living conditions, income and of course healthcare. T [1] - http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/09/bill-gates-misses-the-point-about-googles-balloons-and-malaria/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/09/bill-gate...

maxerickson 12y ago
This is a better link for the quote, it provides the question and the rest of what Gates said (it is linked from your link): http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-08-08/bill-gates-on-his-foundations-health-and-education-campaigns#p1 http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-08-08/bill-gates-o... One of Google’s (GOOG) convictions is that bringing Internet connectivity to less-developed countries can lead to all sorts of secondary benefits. It has a project to float broadband transmitters on balloons. Can bringing Internet access to parts of the world that don’t have it help solve problems? When you’re dying of malaria, I suppose you’ll look up and see that balloon, and I’m not sure how it’ll help you. When a kid gets diarrhea, no, there’s no website that relieves that. Certainly I’m a huge believer in the digital revolution. And connecting up primary-health-care centers, connecting up schools, those are good things. But no, those are not, for the really low-income countries, unless you directly say we’re going to do something about malaria. Google started out saying they were going to do a broad set of things. They hired Larry Brilliant, and they got fantastic publicity. And then they shut it all down. Now they’re just doing their core thing. Fine. But the actors who just do their core thing are not going to uplift the poor. His answer is arguably self serving, but given the question, I wouldn't go so far as to call it an attack, it's a "I don't think their approach will help really low income countries", not a "it's useless".

hackbinary 12y ago

I'm in favour of space and scientific exploration as the next guy, but it is incorrect to equate basic sanitation and education with a welfare state. It seems pretty obvious to me that providing everyone with clean water and sanitation will have far greater economic (and social) impact than giving a very small number people access to very advanced technology. India has some of the worst sanitation conditions in the world. You and I take clean drinking water and sewage treatment for granted. There is a pretty strong case that educating women, giving women control of their reproductive systems, and giving women good hygiene, sanitation, and toilet facilities is the best possible way to lift populations out of poverty. http://www.iamin.in/en/mumbai-north/news/mumbai-ranks-second-worst-sanitation-conditions-claims-new-survey-46547 http://www.iamin.in/en/mumbai-north/news/mumbai-ranks-second... http://www.globalpartnership.org/education http://www.globalpartnership.org/education http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/half-the-sky/economic-empowerment/ http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/half-the-sky/economic-emp... http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/01/09/3138901/rubio-marriage-poverty/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/01/09/3138901/rubio-ma... http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/our-policy-focus/ http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/our-policy-focus/ http://www.unwater.org/worldtoiletday http://www.unwater.org/worldtoiletday http://www.wateraid.org/uk/what-we-do/the-crisis/women http://www.wateraid.org/uk/what-we-do/the-crisis/women

InclinedPlane 12y ago
That's true, but it's a fallacy to imagine that India's science and rocketry programs somehow take resources away from sanitation efforts. In fact India's space program actually brings in revenue, as this story shows. More importantly, it provides inspiration to Indians, showing them what they are capable of doing. That, more than anything, is what is truly necessary to allow India to tackle the fundamental problems it faces.
_nedR 12y ago
I am not saying that India should take all its money from education and sanitation and put it in rockets and r&d. I am not speaking against welfare programs either. I am saying that the whole attitude that "India shouldnt have a space program until everyone has toilets" is self-defeating and means that India will never have a space program, and probably never have enough toilets either. The core of my point is that a small percentage of the budget should be kept aside for r&d in science and technology (and also to encourage entrepreneurship) because the returns from such endeavours can be tremendous. If you put x dollars to buy a toilet you will only ever get 1 toilet but if you invest x dollars wisely you could in time pay for a hundred toilets.

arpitverma007 12y ago

Exactly, this is what I always wanted to say.People working so hard here to remove this tag.