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Discussion around the use of the word "engineer" is unfortunate, and seems to be missing the point. FWIW, I am an electrical engineer (degree, ring, the whole e

Discussion around the use of the word "engineer" is unfortunate, and seems to be missing the point. FWIW, I am an electrical engineer (degree, ring, the whole enchilada) and have the same conditioned reflex toward hearing the word "engineer" applied casually, but: (a) My school didn't offer a software engineering degree. Very few in Canada do. (b) The first electrical engineers (and mechanical engineers, and civil engineers) did not have degrees in that field--they invented it. The field of software engineering is still very new (especially compared to mech and civil), so it's not reasonable to expect everyone who practices it to have formal credentials. (c) Being a stickler about credentials is a stupid way to behave. Obviously, engineering credentials are important safeguards in many fields (someone needs to approve the bridge, airplane part, etc) but software doesn't have the same safeguards. (Whether it should or not is a completely different discussion.) (d) None of this is really what the article is about. It's simply saying that how we describe our profession is important. I work in software full-time nowadays, and although I still wear the ring I usually describe myself as a "software developer" when people ask. It doesn't matter though, because the next question is "what kind of software" and then I focus on the value of what my software does, relative to the person asking.

lfowles 12y ago
Computer engineer here, with the US equivalent of the ring. I'm also a software developer, but my resume says software engineer, because that's the name of the position I hold at work. I'm always a little confused why people are so touchy about the word "engineer". Here, at least, there is a very clear distinction between the word "engineer" and engineers who sign off on projects. It's not like there are thousands of resumes out there purporting to have a Software PE license. I'd appreciate if someone can clear up any misconceptions I have about PE licensing, especially as it applies to other countries.
- bkirwi 12y ago
  In Canada, as I understand it, it's illegal to refer to yourself as an engineer / a position as an engineering position unless you have Real Engineering Credentials. So a lot of the touchiness is just the usual sensitivity you find around a legal issue.
  - snowwindwaves 12y ago
    it is the term "Professional Engineer" that is protected, <any other adjective> engineer is fair game. Similarly anyone can call themselves an accountant, but you can't call yourself a Chartered Accountant unless you are accredited by that organization.
    - y2kenny 12y ago
      Not true. http://redmondmag.com/articles/2001/06/20/updatecanadian-mcses-face-conundrum.aspx http://redmondmag.com/articles/2001/06/20/updatecanadian-mcs...
      - ckcheng 12y ago
        Actually the rules around the P.Eng. titles are provincially regulated as opposed to federally, meaning the rules in Ontario (where apparently the term "Engineer" is protected) is different than in Alberta (where the protected term is "Professional Engineer"). That's why in Alberta, Raymond Merhej was sued for using the title "systems engineer" (as an Apple Canada-certified systems engineer) but the suit was dismissed in late 2003. In response, the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists of Alberta (APEGGA) said basically they'll lobby the government to amend the laws to prevent that in the future. [1] I don't know if such an amendment was ever completed though. And some people seem to forget that military engineers are also "engineers", and they've apparently been around since the early 1600s [2]. And locomotive engineers are also "engineers", and it looks like they don't even need post-secondary schooling [3]. [1] http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engineering-name-debacle/4133 http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engi... [2] http://cmea-agmc.ca/our-heritage-and-our-stories http://cmea-agmc.ca/our-heritage-and-our-stories [3] http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?val=7&val1=7361 http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?va...
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]

lfowles 12y ago

Computer engineer here, with the US equivalent of the ring. I'm also a software developer, but my resume says software engineer, because that's the name of the position I hold at work. I'm always a little confused why people are so touchy about the word "engineer". Here, at least, there is a very clear distinction between the word "engineer" and engineers who sign off on projects. It's not like there are thousands of resumes out there purporting to have a Software PE license. I'd appreciate if someone can clear up any misconceptions I have about PE licensing, especially as it applies to other countries.

bkirwi 12y ago
In Canada, as I understand it, it's illegal to refer to yourself as an engineer / a position as an engineering position unless you have Real Engineering Credentials. So a lot of the touchiness is just the usual sensitivity you find around a legal issue.
- snowwindwaves 12y ago
  it is the term "Professional Engineer" that is protected, <any other adjective> engineer is fair game. Similarly anyone can call themselves an accountant, but you can't call yourself a Chartered Accountant unless you are accredited by that organization.
  - y2kenny 12y ago
    Not true. http://redmondmag.com/articles/2001/06/20/updatecanadian-mcses-face-conundrum.aspx http://redmondmag.com/articles/2001/06/20/updatecanadian-mcs...
    - ckcheng 12y ago
      Actually the rules around the P.Eng. titles are provincially regulated as opposed to federally, meaning the rules in Ontario (where apparently the term "Engineer" is protected) is different than in Alberta (where the protected term is "Professional Engineer"). That's why in Alberta, Raymond Merhej was sued for using the title "systems engineer" (as an Apple Canada-certified systems engineer) but the suit was dismissed in late 2003. In response, the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists and Geophysicists of Alberta (APEGGA) said basically they'll lobby the government to amend the laws to prevent that in the future. [1] I don't know if such an amendment was ever completed though. And some people seem to forget that military engineers are also "engineers", and they've apparently been around since the early 1600s [2]. And locomotive engineers are also "engineers", and it looks like they don't even need post-secondary schooling [3]. [1] http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engineering-name-debacle/4133 http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engi... [2] http://cmea-agmc.ca/our-heritage-and-our-stories http://cmea-agmc.ca/our-heritage-and-our-stories [3] http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?val=7&val1=7361 http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?va...
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]