4 ms·

Surprised at the elitism evident in many comments here. It's a title. Nothing more. A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to

Surprised at the elitism evident in many comments here. It's a title. Nothing more. A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to call yourself an engineer - what if I learnt the same skills without paying extortionate fees and wasting a lot of my time for four years? It almost seems like people are trying to justify their time and money spent at University by claiming exclusivity on the engineering title. At the the end of the day it doesn't matter. The only people who really care about titles are hiring managers and people trying to get hired. Once you're in the job, as long as you have the skills nothing else matters. It seems like the debates around the use of the word hacker or startup. A waste of time.

jghn 12y ago
"The only people who really care about titles are hiring managers and people trying to get hired" One thing I've been trying to change in my company's culture is caring about the titles of applicants. IMO titles are only meaningful within the same company and can't be compare outside. For instance, I've worked in companies where "Senior Software Engineer" meant "you didn't just graduate from college" and I've worked at places where that meant you had 10+ years of experience and showed serious technical skills.
maaaats 12y ago
> A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to call yourself an engineer In many countries, it's a protected title. So yes, then you will need to have an engineering degree.
- TheCoelacanth 12y ago
  I'm not in any of those countries, so no, I don't.
  - maaaats 12y ago
    Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
chroem- 12y ago
What if I read WebMD a lot and have the same skills without paying extortionate amounts of money for medical school? "Engineer" is a protected title much like "Medical Doctor," and for good reason. Outside of web development, when things break people die. No matter what way you spin it, it's impossible to apply that same level of gravity to apps and websites. Engineering is serious business and the amount of rigorous preparation and training that engineers must go through to earn their title matches that. Please think about that next time you're at 50,000 feet on a transatlantic flight.
- dsacco 12y ago
  You're conflating software engineering with mechanical engineering. It's not the same as mechanical engineering, or even medical school. You can absolutely learn all of software engineering, inside and out, without a formal education. All the gravity applied to software that peoples' lives depend on? It can be designed, developed and debugged with or without a formal education. Almost every argument in this thread bears a similarity to yours, but software engineering is not the same as traditional engineering. Comparing it to trades or crafts which demand physical inspection of a skillset and an in person mentorship is not valid. EDIT: Upon closer inspection of your comment, it seems as though your position is that software engineering should not be called engineering at all, because it does not require the same rigor as the other disciplines you mentioned during training. If that's the case, I agree with you. I take issue with people demanding that a title be tied to education when education is not demonstrably required for the skillset...but I also think "engineer" isn't necessarily an appropriate term for what "software engineers" do.
- TheCoelacanth 12y ago
  Except that in the US, where many, perhaps even most, of the people on this site work, it is not a protected title. You can not claim to be a "Professional Engineer" or to be a supplier of "engineering services", but there are no restrictions on calling yourself an "Engineer".
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to call yourself an engineer - what if I learnt the same skills without paying extortionate fees and wasting a lot of my time for four years? A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete med school to call yourself an M.D. What if i learned the same skills by taking some online courses and reading books on medical best practices? >>The only people who really care about titles are hiring managers and people trying to get hired. Once you're in the job, as long as you have the skills nothing else matters. Wrong. Tons of people care about titles. At my previous job, my title had the word "engineer" attached to it, even though what I did was mostly technical consulting. Guess what though: when we were in meetings with customers, they absolutely loved the fact that the company had allocated an engineer to their project/problem, rather than a consultant. The prestige that came with the title went a long way with establishing our credibility and bought a lot of good will.
- dsacco 12y ago
  If you could reasonably expect to learn all the skills required to perform legitimate and rigorous surgery from a book, I would have no problem calling you a doctor if you didn't have a degree, provided you could demonstrate these skills. Just like degree-less applicants do in a coding interview. The difference, of course, is that medical school is not at all the same deal where you can learn everything by sitting in front of a computer with an internet connection. Everyone is jumping to use medical school as an analogy, and it's frankly a false comparison. I agree with you about people caring about titles and the perception they bring, however.

jghn 12y ago

"The only people who really care about titles are hiring managers and people trying to get hired" One thing I've been trying to change in my company's culture is caring about the titles of applicants. IMO titles are only meaningful within the same company and can't be compare outside. For instance, I've worked in companies where "Senior Software Engineer" meant "you didn't just graduate from college" and I've worked at places where that meant you had 10+ years of experience and showed serious technical skills.

maaaats 12y ago

> A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to call yourself an engineer In many countries, it's a protected title. So yes, then you will need to have an engineering degree.

TheCoelacanth 12y ago
I'm not in any of those countries, so no, I don't.
- maaaats 12y ago
  Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

chroem- 12y ago

What if I read WebMD a lot and have the same skills without paying extortionate amounts of money for medical school? "Engineer" is a protected title much like "Medical Doctor," and for good reason. Outside of web development, when things break people die. No matter what way you spin it, it's impossible to apply that same level of gravity to apps and websites. Engineering is serious business and the amount of rigorous preparation and training that engineers must go through to earn their title matches that. Please think about that next time you're at 50,000 feet on a transatlantic flight.

dsacco 12y ago
You're conflating software engineering with mechanical engineering. It's not the same as mechanical engineering, or even medical school. You can absolutely learn all of software engineering, inside and out, without a formal education. All the gravity applied to software that peoples' lives depend on? It can be designed, developed and debugged with or without a formal education. Almost every argument in this thread bears a similarity to yours, but software engineering is not the same as traditional engineering. Comparing it to trades or crafts which demand physical inspection of a skillset and an in person mentorship is not valid. EDIT: Upon closer inspection of your comment, it seems as though your position is that software engineering should not be called engineering at all, because it does not require the same rigor as the other disciplines you mentioned during training. If that's the case, I agree with you. I take issue with people demanding that a title be tied to education when education is not demonstrably required for the skillset...but I also think "engineer" isn't necessarily an appropriate term for what "software engineers" do.
TheCoelacanth 12y ago
Except that in the US, where many, perhaps even most, of the people on this site work, it is not a protected title. You can not claim to be a "Professional Engineer" or to be a supplier of "engineering services", but there are no restrictions on calling yourself an "Engineer".

enraged_camel 12y ago

>>A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete an engineering degree to call yourself an engineer - what if I learnt the same skills without paying extortionate fees and wasting a lot of my time for four years? A lot of people seem to be saying you must complete med school to call yourself an M.D. What if i learned the same skills by taking some online courses and reading books on medical best practices? >>The only people who really care about titles are hiring managers and people trying to get hired. Once you're in the job, as long as you have the skills nothing else matters. Wrong. Tons of people care about titles. At my previous job, my title had the word "engineer" attached to it, even though what I did was mostly technical consulting. Guess what though: when we were in meetings with customers, they absolutely loved the fact that the company had allocated an engineer to their project/problem, rather than a consultant. The prestige that came with the title went a long way with establishing our credibility and bought a lot of good will.

dsacco 12y ago
If you could reasonably expect to learn all the skills required to perform legitimate and rigorous surgery from a book, I would have no problem calling you a doctor if you didn't have a degree, provided you could demonstrate these skills. Just like degree-less applicants do in a coding interview. The difference, of course, is that medical school is not at all the same deal where you can learn everything by sitting in front of a computer with an internet connection. Everyone is jumping to use medical school as an analogy, and it's frankly a false comparison. I agree with you about people caring about titles and the perception they bring, however.