5 ms·

Please don't call yourself an engineer unless you've got the ring.

spiritplumber 12y ago
I wasn't given a ring because my school doesn't do the ceremony :( Actually, I had this conversation with someone in Italy, who said I couldn't put "engineer" on my business card because of some certification or another that was missing. What I did was give him a quick lab tour, with emphasis on the battlebots. It worked.
dsacco 12y ago
While I understand the sentiment, this is pretty insulting to a lot of people who bear the title "engineer" without having completed an engineering degree. You're not going to be able to win this, it's like being upset that the definition of "literally" has changed. Many people without degrees are employed by companies like Google and Microsoft with the title "engineer." Some of my friends don't have college degrees at all, and they demonstrably understand computer science fundamentals, algorithm design and software development better than many or even most college graduates.
- comrade1 12y ago
  Maybe it's like that in the USA, but it isn't like that in most of the world. 'Engineer' means something.
  - dsacco 12y ago
    I can respect that. But to pose devil's advocate - why do you believe the education is special? If we begin with a formal analysis, this sentiment begins with "Is it possible for an individual to learn everything required to be a fully competant software engineer without going to university?" If you agree this is possible, that there is at least one human being capable of this, then the "special" meaning of engineer becomes limited to title and investment paid in a college education. It no longer is an absolute determination of skillset or intelligence. There is data in favor of that statement. Google conducted a study that showed an extremely weak correlation between degree and hiring results, at least within its own company. And there are numerous examples of people who have accomplished quite a bit in the realm of legitimate software engineering without a degree.
  - onion2k 12y ago
    Engineer is a description of what someone does, not what qualifications they have.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - vhost- 12y ago
    But what _does_ it mean?
  - TheCoelacanth 12y ago
    I don't see how what the rest of the world does is relevant to what people in the US call themselves. We don't expect you to follow our cultural norms. Don't expect us to follow yours.
mvid 12y ago
$10 makes you an engineer. Please. http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=237 http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=237
s_baby 12y ago
Why? Do you think there's something exceptional about being an "Engineer"?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- jghn 12y ago
  In some countries there is, and it's a legal thing. It'd be like calling yourself a doctor when you're not.
  - coupdejarnac 12y ago
    It's like this in the USA, too. The only reason why people aren't penalized for calling themselves engineers when they are not licensed is because they work under the umbrella of a corporation that grants them an exception to the rule.
- all_your_gold 12y ago
  In many countries, there is: you can't be an engineer without ... an actual engineering degree.
r-s 12y ago
In Canada everyone with an engineering degree gets a ring. I do find it funny that I work with several Chemical and Mechanical engineers who hold the title Software Engineer, but myself with a Comp Sci degree get the title Software Developer.
coupdejarnac 12y ago
It's actually a card, not a ring. ;)
atarian 12y ago
Please don't call yourself an engineer unless you're licensed: http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-introduces-pe-exam-for-software-engineering/ http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-introduces-pe-exam-f...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

I wasn't given a ring because my school doesn't do the ceremony :( Actually, I had this conversation with someone in Italy, who said I couldn't put "engineer" on my business card because of some certification or another that was missing. What I did was give him a quick lab tour, with emphasis on the battlebots. It worked.

dsacco 12y ago

While I understand the sentiment, this is pretty insulting to a lot of people who bear the title "engineer" without having completed an engineering degree. You're not going to be able to win this, it's like being upset that the definition of "literally" has changed. Many people without degrees are employed by companies like Google and Microsoft with the title "engineer." Some of my friends don't have college degrees at all, and they demonstrably understand computer science fundamentals, algorithm design and software development better than many or even most college graduates.

comrade1 12y ago
Maybe it's like that in the USA, but it isn't like that in most of the world. 'Engineer' means something.
- dsacco 12y ago
  I can respect that. But to pose devil's advocate - why do you believe the education is special? If we begin with a formal analysis, this sentiment begins with "Is it possible for an individual to learn everything required to be a fully competant software engineer without going to university?" If you agree this is possible, that there is at least one human being capable of this, then the "special" meaning of engineer becomes limited to title and investment paid in a college education. It no longer is an absolute determination of skillset or intelligence. There is data in favor of that statement. Google conducted a study that showed an extremely weak correlation between degree and hiring results, at least within its own company. And there are numerous examples of people who have accomplished quite a bit in the realm of legitimate software engineering without a degree.
- onion2k 12y ago
  Engineer is a description of what someone does, not what qualifications they have.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- vhost- 12y ago
  But what _does_ it mean?
- TheCoelacanth 12y ago
  I don't see how what the rest of the world does is relevant to what people in the US call themselves. We don't expect you to follow our cultural norms. Don't expect us to follow yours.

mvid 12y ago

$10 makes you an engineer. Please. http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=237 http://www.order-of-the-engineer.org/?page_id=237

s_baby 12y ago

Why? Do you think there's something exceptional about being an "Engineer"?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jghn 12y ago
In some countries there is, and it's a legal thing. It'd be like calling yourself a doctor when you're not.
- coupdejarnac 12y ago
  It's like this in the USA, too. The only reason why people aren't penalized for calling themselves engineers when they are not licensed is because they work under the umbrella of a corporation that grants them an exception to the rule.
all_your_gold 12y ago
In many countries, there is: you can't be an engineer without ... an actual engineering degree.

r-s 12y ago

In Canada everyone with an engineering degree gets a ring. I do find it funny that I work with several Chemical and Mechanical engineers who hold the title Software Engineer, but myself with a Comp Sci degree get the title Software Developer.

coupdejarnac 12y ago

It's actually a card, not a ring. ;)

atarian 12y ago

Please don't call yourself an engineer unless you're licensed: http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-introduces-pe-exam-for-software-engineering/ http://ncees.org/about-ncees/news/ncees-introduces-pe-exam-f...

deleted 12y ago

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