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Let's not forget that Reddit was censoring the Fappening subreddits, along with plenty of other censorship on a smaller scale (usually censoring specific storie

by tomp 12y ago

Let's not forget that Reddit was censoring the Fappening subreddits, along with plenty of other censorship on a smaller scale (usually censoring specific stories in some subreddits, which is done by the moderators of said subreddits, but in the case of default subreddits, it's de facto approved by the company). Sometimes, censorship and privacy attacks by internal actors is as big a threat as external attacks.

raldi 12y ago
And other times, the benefits of censorship outweigh the costs. I believe that stolen naked pictures is one of those situations. Moderators "censoring" spam and off-topic submissions is another.
- moomin 12y ago
  Yes, but they don't censor stolen naked pictures, they only censor stolen naked pictures of the famous. Which is truly classy. Free speech on reddit is a privilege of the powerful, not a right of the powerless.
  - raldi 12y ago
    I agree that they should do it for everyone. In fact, I believe they should generalize the rule to "No sexualizing someone without their consent." That takes care of jailbait, creepshots, and thefappening all in one fell swoop. But that's neither here nor there; my point was that not all censorship is wrong, and based on this comment, it seems you agree.
    - moomin 12y ago
      I agree completely, but I also think that it's always worth asking exactly what power structures the "principles" organizations espouse actually support.
  - kalleboo 12y ago
    What? They also banned creepshots and similar subs. It's more like they'll be quick to ban things that make noise and make them look bad. There are lots of creepy or illegal small subs, it's not until there's a huge stink made about them that they'll act.
- just_athrowaway 12y ago
  Not sure if you're disagreeing with tomp's comment or just changing the subject. TwoX is a default and at least before I quit the site a contrary view in that sub was likely to earn a shadowban. I understand the mods have to deal with trolls but when contrary viewpoints are being censored as "trolling" it's gone too far. The toxicity of the reddit's "social justice" movement and SRS in particular is poisoning the site and making discourse about controversial topics nearly impossible.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I thought shadowbans were implemented by admins and admin tools and not by mods. Has that changed?
    - 8note 12y ago
      no, reddit's ban types just aren't well publicised
    - just_athrowaway 12y ago
      Who knows who gets to do what, but at least one admin became an SRS mod immediately upon leaving their position. http://www.dailydot.com/business/reddit-admin-intortus-leaves-srs/ http://www.dailydot.com/business/reddit-admin-intortus-leave... I decided to stop by for old time's sake and found this on the front-page: http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2v39v2/what_popular_subreddit_has_a_really_toxic/coe23u7 http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2v39v2/what_popula...
  - raldi 12y ago
    You can discuss controversial topics all you want. You just can't do it on any subreddit you please.
    - just_athrowaway 12y ago
      That's great but I'm not talking about subreddits banning topics, I'm talking about the enforcement of acceptable views on topics that are already being discussed. I agree with having safeguards against things like hate-speech, I disagree with how conveniently and broadly that's defined by certain people in order to push their social and political agendas.
- tomp 12y ago
  I'm not talking only about stolen pictures. I'm talking more about censorship of ideas, or information Reddit finds inconvenient. For an example, just these days such a ban occured - read about it here[1]; TL;DR: a new subreddit gets created, its moderators are then shadowbanned. I don't care much about the contents of the subreddit (could be just a conspiracy theory), I care about Reddit's reaction, which is pure and direct censorship. [1] https://archive.today/yBjys https://archive.today/yBjys
  - raldi 12y ago
    Well, the post is only five hours old. I'd say you should give it another 24 hours. If, at that point, there's still not a comment in that thread with a big red [A], then I agree, that's inexcusable, unless there's some kind of a gag order or other complicated legal thing going on. Heavily-upvoted petitions deserve at least a brief official response. That said, there could be all kinds of reasonable explanations for what happened, including automated anti-abuse defenses that malfunctioned.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
nemothekid 12y ago
I'm pretty sure the reason why Reddit banned the fappening subreddits is because it was easier to just ban the whole sub rather than taking down links one by one (which I assume is their current DMCA policy). Lawyers were the cause of the deletion of that subreddit, not some censorship boogeyman. If you believe that Reddit should have weathered millions of dollars in possible legal fees in order to protect their user's ability to view illicit pictures of celebrities then take your problem to your congressman and the DMCA.
rmc 12y ago
So mods moderating their subreddit counts as "censorship" now? Cripes subreddits are made for a purpose, moderating is part of that./r/AskHistorians requires that you provide sources, and comments are deleted if not. Is that censorship?

by tomp 12y ago

raldi 12y ago

And other times, the benefits of censorship outweigh the costs. I believe that stolen naked pictures is one of those situations. Moderators "censoring" spam and off-topic submissions is another.

moomin 12y ago
Yes, but they don't censor stolen naked pictures, they only censor stolen naked pictures of the famous. Which is truly classy. Free speech on reddit is a privilege of the powerful, not a right of the powerless.
- raldi 12y ago
  I agree that they should do it for everyone. In fact, I believe they should generalize the rule to "No sexualizing someone without their consent." That takes care of jailbait, creepshots, and thefappening all in one fell swoop. But that's neither here nor there; my point was that not all censorship is wrong, and based on this comment, it seems you agree.
  - moomin 12y ago
    I agree completely, but I also think that it's always worth asking exactly what power structures the "principles" organizations espouse actually support.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  What? They also banned creepshots and similar subs. It's more like they'll be quick to ban things that make noise and make them look bad. There are lots of creepy or illegal small subs, it's not until there's a huge stink made about them that they'll act.
just_athrowaway 12y ago
Not sure if you're disagreeing with tomp's comment or just changing the subject. TwoX is a default and at least before I quit the site a contrary view in that sub was likely to earn a shadowban. I understand the mods have to deal with trolls but when contrary viewpoints are being censored as "trolling" it's gone too far. The toxicity of the reddit's "social justice" movement and SRS in particular is poisoning the site and making discourse about controversial topics nearly impossible.
- DanBC 12y ago
  I thought shadowbans were implemented by admins and admin tools and not by mods. Has that changed?
  - 8note 12y ago
    no, reddit's ban types just aren't well publicised
  - just_athrowaway 12y ago
    Who knows who gets to do what, but at least one admin became an SRS mod immediately upon leaving their position. http://www.dailydot.com/business/reddit-admin-intortus-leaves-srs/ http://www.dailydot.com/business/reddit-admin-intortus-leave... I decided to stop by for old time's sake and found this on the front-page: http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2v39v2/what_popular_subreddit_has_a_really_toxic/coe23u7 http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2v39v2/what_popula...
- raldi 12y ago
  You can discuss controversial topics all you want. You just can't do it on any subreddit you please.
  - just_athrowaway 12y ago
    That's great but I'm not talking about subreddits banning topics, I'm talking about the enforcement of acceptable views on topics that are already being discussed. I agree with having safeguards against things like hate-speech, I disagree with how conveniently and broadly that's defined by certain people in order to push their social and political agendas.
tomp 12y ago
I'm not talking only about stolen pictures. I'm talking more about censorship of ideas, or information Reddit finds inconvenient. For an example, just these days such a ban occured - read about it here[1]; TL;DR: a new subreddit gets created, its moderators are then shadowbanned. I don't care much about the contents of the subreddit (could be just a conspiracy theory), I care about Reddit's reaction, which is pure and direct censorship. [1] https://archive.today/yBjys https://archive.today/yBjys
- raldi 12y ago
  Well, the post is only five hours old. I'd say you should give it another 24 hours. If, at that point, there's still not a comment in that thread with a big red [A], then I agree, that's inexcusable, unless there's some kind of a gag order or other complicated legal thing going on. Heavily-upvoted petitions deserve at least a brief official response. That said, there could be all kinds of reasonable explanations for what happened, including automated anti-abuse defenses that malfunctioned.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

nemothekid 12y ago

I'm pretty sure the reason why Reddit banned the fappening subreddits is because it was easier to just ban the whole sub rather than taking down links one by one (which I assume is their current DMCA policy). Lawyers were the cause of the deletion of that subreddit, not some censorship boogeyman. If you believe that Reddit should have weathered millions of dollars in possible legal fees in order to protect their user's ability to view illicit pictures of celebrities then take your problem to your congressman and the DMCA.

rmc 12y ago

So mods moderating their subreddit counts as "censorship" now? Cripes subreddits are made for a purpose, moderating is part of that./r/AskHistorians requires that you provide sources, and comments are deleted if not. Is that censorship?