4 ms·

> If you're getting your work done, on time, and to the quality specifications... Does this exist in software development? There is always more work to do tha

by samspot 12y ago

> If you're getting your work done, on time, and to the quality specifications... Does this exist in software development? There is always more work to do than there are people to do it (wherever I have worked). If I clearly goof off/don't work friday while others struggle to push us to our goals, I will not have a very good relationship with my team. Our team philosophy is that if you finish early, then you help others out who are struggling. I'm all for working less hours, but there would have to be a perfect storm of events to make it a regular thing, including a push from management to make it the culture. I don't think it's fair to blame this on bean-counting or crazy managers. Many of us are salaried and don't have people scrutinizing our hours worked.

jforman 12y ago
This can be addressed by managers making more reasonably attainable goals. Every other industry in the world has an endless list of things to do as well and yet most don't suffer from the same lack of work/life balance.
jghn 12y ago
At least at my work there's always more to do but that doesn't mean it's always worth jumping in on it. For instance I tend to be put on larger umbrella tasks which take a few weeks. It isn't uncommon for me to wrap up a little ahead of time - sure there are things I could do but usually because of the way things have been planned there are other pieces of that puzzle which aren't fully in place either. So I'll poke around a bit but take it easy for that day or so. Sure, I could jump in to help someone else out for that day but is it really worth distracting that person to get me up to speed with what they need and what they're doing for what would amount to a few hours worth of work? Not really. The flip side of this is that when one finds themselves in a position where the deadline is going to be difficult to meet there's an expectation that extra time is put in to make it happen. As long as the two are happening roughly the same it balances out anyways.
- morgante 12y ago
  That's basically what makes agile (in the original iteration) so valuable. Give engineers the discretion to take on what they deem reasonable and trust them to finish it.
falcolas 12y ago
> There is always more work to do than there are people to do it That's a failure at the management level, not the developer's level. Expecting developers to make up for the management failure will work for a week, maybe even a month. Then attrition will rise, overall productivity will fall, and the team is screwed anyway. It is quite literally management's job to identify what needs to get done when, and to ensure that they have the proper resources to get it done. If they can't hire, then they need to triage between pushing their workers harder now at the consequence of loosing their productivity (or the workers themselves) later, or pushing out the timelines. The problem is that most managers don't understand the tradeoffs involved, because we as programmers don't provide the proper feedback (or they're just bad managers and don't listen to feedback that's provided). > [...] I will not have a very good relationship with my team. Our team philosophy is that if you finish early, then you help others out who are struggling. It sounds like management has been able to use group dynamics to create an unhealthy working situation. These kinds of attitudes typically come from above, not below. The problem which will arise from this situation is going to manifest itself as the "early finishers" dropping their productivity (why bother working hard when all I get is to pick up after my co-workers), burning out, or they just plain leave. Have you seen any of that yourself? Try providing feedback up the chain that you need more workers for the given workload. You'll learn a lot from their response.
- dingaling 12y ago
  > (or they're just bad managers and don't listen to feedback that's provided Or they listen and empathise, but their budget comes from above and there is nothing they can do. The deadlines come from above, too.
  - falcolas 12y ago
    In which case it's their job to push back on "above". They are particularly well suited to writing up a business case which says in a thousand words of manager-eese (and with lots of dollar figures) that "we need more people to finish your projects on time". Simply pushing back on you with "I have to work within the constraints set from above" is the manager being lazy. Note, this is a subtly different response from "We will have to do more with less", which is manager-eese for "I've been shut down by my managers". That said, in either case you should probably be ready to jump ship (though in the second case, your manager will probably be willing to give you a good reference).

by samspot 12y ago

jforman 12y ago

This can be addressed by managers making more reasonably attainable goals. Every other industry in the world has an endless list of things to do as well and yet most don't suffer from the same lack of work/life balance.

jghn 12y ago

At least at my work there's always more to do but that doesn't mean it's always worth jumping in on it. For instance I tend to be put on larger umbrella tasks which take a few weeks. It isn't uncommon for me to wrap up a little ahead of time - sure there are things I could do but usually because of the way things have been planned there are other pieces of that puzzle which aren't fully in place either. So I'll poke around a bit but take it easy for that day or so. Sure, I could jump in to help someone else out for that day but is it really worth distracting that person to get me up to speed with what they need and what they're doing for what would amount to a few hours worth of work? Not really. The flip side of this is that when one finds themselves in a position where the deadline is going to be difficult to meet there's an expectation that extra time is put in to make it happen. As long as the two are happening roughly the same it balances out anyways.

morgante 12y ago
That's basically what makes agile (in the original iteration) so valuable. Give engineers the discretion to take on what they deem reasonable and trust them to finish it.

falcolas 12y ago

> There is always more work to do than there are people to do it That's a failure at the management level, not the developer's level. Expecting developers to make up for the management failure will work for a week, maybe even a month. Then attrition will rise, overall productivity will fall, and the team is screwed anyway. It is quite literally management's job to identify what needs to get done when, and to ensure that they have the proper resources to get it done. If they can't hire, then they need to triage between pushing their workers harder now at the consequence of loosing their productivity (or the workers themselves) later, or pushing out the timelines. The problem is that most managers don't understand the tradeoffs involved, because we as programmers don't provide the proper feedback (or they're just bad managers and don't listen to feedback that's provided). > [...] I will not have a very good relationship with my team. Our team philosophy is that if you finish early, then you help others out who are struggling. It sounds like management has been able to use group dynamics to create an unhealthy working situation. These kinds of attitudes typically come from above, not below. The problem which will arise from this situation is going to manifest itself as the "early finishers" dropping their productivity (why bother working hard when all I get is to pick up after my co-workers), burning out, or they just plain leave. Have you seen any of that yourself? Try providing feedback up the chain that you need more workers for the given workload. You'll learn a lot from their response.

dingaling 12y ago
> (or they're just bad managers and don't listen to feedback that's provided Or they listen and empathise, but their budget comes from above and there is nothing they can do. The deadlines come from above, too.
- falcolas 12y ago
  In which case it's their job to push back on "above". They are particularly well suited to writing up a business case which says in a thousand words of manager-eese (and with lots of dollar figures) that "we need more people to finish your projects on time". Simply pushing back on you with "I have to work within the constraints set from above" is the manager being lazy. Note, this is a subtly different response from "We will have to do more with less", which is manager-eese for "I've been shut down by my managers". That said, in either case you should probably be ready to jump ship (though in the second case, your manager will probably be willing to give you a good reference).