7 ms·

Also known as The Best Virtual Machine. It would be nice to see the 64-bit Mono vs JVM vs V8 (or whatever monkey it's called this time) in a year or so. .NET CL

by CmonDev 12y ago

Also known as The Best Virtual Machine. It would be nice to see the 64-bit Mono vs JVM vs V8 (or whatever monkey it's called this time) in a year or so. .NET CLR was already destroying every other on Win (even before RyuJIT and SIMD and native compilation), now Linux will be covered as well.

nbevans 12y ago
You are wholly correct but even still, sadly, you can expect a barrage of down votes for stating the truth.
nercury 12y ago
I think the JavaScript virtual machines are amazing. Thanks to browser speed wars, they pulled out a trick that I would not have thought possible - making JavaScript fast as hell. Calling V8 "whatever monkey" is a bit ignorant. Oh, I haven't said that JavaScript is a good language :)
- aselzer 12y ago
  I believe the comment meant V8 and {Spider,Trace,Jäger}Monkey (the Mozilla JS engine), which nowadays even beats V8 in some benchmarks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey_%28software%29#TraceMonkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey_%28software%29#Tra...
- _random_ 12y ago
  Unfortunately it pushed the industry on the wrong path. Now everyone is coming app with transpilable super-sets and some folks are even pushing the unmaintainable code to the previously safe server-side (node, meteor etc.).
  - k__ 12y ago
    Yes. Just look what Lars Bak did with JavaScript. If he would work on the CLR, things could get really awesome.
    - the_why_of_y 12y ago
      You mean it could become as awesome as the HotSpot JVM, which was originally based on the StrongTalk VM for SmallTalk, which was in turn based on the Self implementation from Sun Labs? (hint: Lars Bak worked on all of the above) http://www.strongtalk.org/ http://www.strongtalk.org/ http://www.selflanguage.org/ http://www.selflanguage.org/
      - k__ 12y ago
        I don't know how much hacks he had to use for the JVM and V8 that could be left out in the CLR. AFAIK he didn't create those things from scratch, he had to use the Java, SmallTalk, Self and JavaScript specs that were already out in the wild.
  - nawitus 12y ago
    JavaScript code is not unmaintainable.
- Matthias247 12y ago
  Don't forget that JavaScript is singlethreaded, which makes a lot of things (e.g. GC) easier. I think if JVM or CLR was purely singlethreaded they would gain some more speed. Web Workers don't as multithreading, they are more like isolated processes than threads.
eropple 12y ago
I'd like to hear this "best" substantiated against HotSpot. I enjoy writing code on the CLR, but I'm not aware of strong performance arguments in its favor relative to HotSpot.
- moomin 12y ago
  That's kind of the million dollar question. It's always been faster than HotSpot... On Windows. And no-one cared. It'll be very interesting when people start to get some sense of the relative performance characteristics on Linux. It's a hard problem, though. For instance, async IO is relatively faster on Windows vs sync IO. Whilst threads and processes are pretty expensive on Windows compared to Linux.
oldmanjay 12y ago
interesting. usually the top comment is a little more substantial than an unsupported adversarial statement of opinion.
mda 12y ago
".NET CLR was already destroying every other on Win " Really? Care to provide some details?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by CmonDev 12y ago

nbevans 12y ago

You are wholly correct but even still, sadly, you can expect a barrage of down votes for stating the truth.

nercury 12y ago

I think the JavaScript virtual machines are amazing. Thanks to browser speed wars, they pulled out a trick that I would not have thought possible - making JavaScript fast as hell. Calling V8 "whatever monkey" is a bit ignorant. Oh, I haven't said that JavaScript is a good language :)

aselzer 12y ago
I believe the comment meant V8 and {Spider,Trace,Jäger}Monkey (the Mozilla JS engine), which nowadays even beats V8 in some benchmarks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey_%28software%29#TraceMonkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiderMonkey_%28software%29#Tra...
_random_ 12y ago
Unfortunately it pushed the industry on the wrong path. Now everyone is coming app with transpilable super-sets and some folks are even pushing the unmaintainable code to the previously safe server-side (node, meteor etc.).
- k__ 12y ago
  Yes. Just look what Lars Bak did with JavaScript. If he would work on the CLR, things could get really awesome.
  - the_why_of_y 12y ago
    You mean it could become as awesome as the HotSpot JVM, which was originally based on the StrongTalk VM for SmallTalk, which was in turn based on the Self implementation from Sun Labs? (hint: Lars Bak worked on all of the above) http://www.strongtalk.org/ http://www.strongtalk.org/ http://www.selflanguage.org/ http://www.selflanguage.org/
    - k__ 12y ago
      I don't know how much hacks he had to use for the JVM and V8 that could be left out in the CLR. AFAIK he didn't create those things from scratch, he had to use the Java, SmallTalk, Self and JavaScript specs that were already out in the wild.
- nawitus 12y ago
  JavaScript code is not unmaintainable.
Matthias247 12y ago
Don't forget that JavaScript is singlethreaded, which makes a lot of things (e.g. GC) easier. I think if JVM or CLR was purely singlethreaded they would gain some more speed. Web Workers don't as multithreading, they are more like isolated processes than threads.

eropple 12y ago

I'd like to hear this "best" substantiated against HotSpot. I enjoy writing code on the CLR, but I'm not aware of strong performance arguments in its favor relative to HotSpot.

moomin 12y ago
That's kind of the million dollar question. It's always been faster than HotSpot... On Windows. And no-one cared. It'll be very interesting when people start to get some sense of the relative performance characteristics on Linux. It's a hard problem, though. For instance, async IO is relatively faster on Windows vs sync IO. Whilst threads and processes are pretty expensive on Windows compared to Linux.

oldmanjay 12y ago

interesting. usually the top comment is a little more substantial than an unsupported adversarial statement of opinion.

mda 12y ago

".NET CLR was already destroying every other on Win " Really? Care to provide some details?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]