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Socialism is the centralized control of the means of production. How much rich elites hoard surplus value by means of that centralized control is immaterial. W

Socialism is the centralized control of the means of production. How much rich elites hoard surplus value by means of that centralized control is immaterial. Wealth redistribution is orthogonal to socialism or freedom. In fact, welfare policies supporting egalitarian consumption are more compatible with capitalism plus an income tax than any kind of socialism. And socialism is a synonym for tightly, centrally regulated. Which is what the US health care system is; it's one of the most socialist systems in the world. The benefit of private insurance companies is a small part of what makes US medicine expensive. The relative lack of trained doctors and denying qualified nurses permission to treat common conditions without direct supervision of an MD and multiple layers of review for simple prescriptions are much more important. The cost disparity is mostly a result of badly run regulation rather than anyone's profits. Changing to a different funding system -- whether Obamacare or single player or NHS style public hospitals -- won't make US medicine much cheaper. The problems run deep and will take decades of dedicated bureaucrats rewriting rules, reorganizing institutions, and instituting new standards of practice with the support of wise, patient politicians to get it right.

jholman 12y ago
I agree with you about the (original and most important) meaning of "socialism", and I agree with the majority of the declarative sentences in your comment. However, that's not what the "socialized" in "socialized healthcare" means. Nobody uses it that way, that's not what it means. "Socialized healthcare" means that the cost burden of providing (some aspects of) healthcare is borne by the society. "Socialized healthcare" is fundamentally about wealth redistribution. That's how people use that phrase; that's what that phrase means when people say it. I also am highly skeptical that the U.S. system of healthcare is "one of the most socialist systems" in the first world. More socialist than healthcare in Uganda, sure, perhaps. The means of production of healthcare are primarily owned and operated by private companies. Yes, they are regulated, but that's very nearly orthogonal to capitalism or socialism. And yes, there are socialist aspects to the American system, but my understanding is that they tend to be corner cases (admittedly large corner cases). I think you would be hard-pressed to find a first-world system of healthcare that has as much private ownership of the means of production of healthcare. As for the fix for the established fact that Americans pay around twice as much for slightly-inferior care (relative to other first-world countries).... Your claim that it's over-regulation is wildly citation-needed, although you might be right, and I think it's clear that there's room for SOME savings in things like nurse-practitioners. Nonetheless, the first and most dramatic thing that everyone notices when they compare the U.S. system to the systems that work better (e.g. every other member of the G8) is that the U.S. system is full of adversarial friction, where many private corporations each strive to take a piece of the pie. Good for private profits, bad for everyone else. Not a value judgement, just a difference from other first-world systems.

jholman 12y ago

I agree with you about the (original and most important) meaning of "socialism", and I agree with the majority of the declarative sentences in your comment. However, that's not what the "socialized" in "socialized healthcare" means. Nobody uses it that way, that's not what it means. "Socialized healthcare" means that the cost burden of providing (some aspects of) healthcare is borne by the society. "Socialized healthcare" is fundamentally about wealth redistribution. That's how people use that phrase; that's what that phrase means when people say it. I also am highly skeptical that the U.S. system of healthcare is "one of the most socialist systems" in the first world. More socialist than healthcare in Uganda, sure, perhaps. The means of production of healthcare are primarily owned and operated by private companies. Yes, they are regulated, but that's very nearly orthogonal to capitalism or socialism. And yes, there are socialist aspects to the American system, but my understanding is that they tend to be corner cases (admittedly large corner cases). I think you would be hard-pressed to find a first-world system of healthcare that has as much private ownership of the means of production of healthcare. As for the fix for the established fact that Americans pay around twice as much for slightly-inferior care (relative to other first-world countries).... Your claim that it's over-regulation is wildly citation-needed, although you might be right, and I think it's clear that there's room for SOME savings in things like nurse-practitioners. Nonetheless, the first and most dramatic thing that everyone notices when they compare the U.S. system to the systems that work better (e.g. every other member of the G8) is that the U.S. system is full of adversarial friction, where many private corporations each strive to take a piece of the pie. Good for private profits, bad for everyone else. Not a value judgement, just a difference from other first-world systems.