5 ms·

Out of curiosity, if someone e-files fraudulently for you, are you held liable by the IRS if you are audited?

stinkytaco 12y ago
I don't have much insight into the legal end of this, but I will say I've had (or at least been involved with) "run-ins" with the IRS twice, both times were legitimate misunderstandings on our part. We were in the wrong, but no actual malice was intended. Both times the IRS was quite flexible in getting the problem sorted out. It's just personal experience, but that experience was not of the IRS as a monolithic government body that bulldozes people. They wanted their money and were willing to work with me to get it.
- Crito 12y ago
  Yeah, that is my experience with dealing with them as well. They actually have very good "customer service" if they don't believe you are deliberately keeping money from them. They want their money, and if you want to give them their money, then they seem to be very reasonable.
- mml 12y ago
  Nitpick: they wanted your money. It's not "theirs" by any stretch.
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    If we're nitpicking, it's the result of a transaction. Granted it's a transaction you're not opting out of, but it's still an exchange of service for payment. By any other measure in a transaction that money ceases to be yours and becomes theirs. We can argue the merits of income tax or taxation in general, but in our (and many similar) systems, it's not your money if you wish to live in the country and thus partake in this transaction.
ceejayoz 12y ago
Assuming you've prepared and filed your own non-fraudulent returns, I can't imagine why you would be.
birken 12y ago
I've had it happen to me. My experience was: 1. Scammer filed a tax return under my name/SSN, probably with a large return to their bank account/address 2. Later in the year I filed my tax return, but it was rejected because it thinks you have already filed 3. I called the IRS, then had to sign and mail affidavit confirming I am me and a fraudulent person filed my return. Then I mailed in my tax return. 4. ~8 months later the IRS mailed me something that confirmed fraud occurred and I wasn't liable for anything. 5. I wasn't audited so presumably they sorted it out and accepted my valid return 6. Now the IRS mails me a PIN number that needs to be used for filing my tax return [1] I'll also note that in all the support phone calls with the IRS, they were really incredibly helpful, pleasant, and I never had any long wait times or anything. 1: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/The-Identity-Protection-PIN-IP-PIN http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/The-Identity-Protection-PIN-I...
- slantedview 12y ago
  If I recall - a PIN number of some sort is already part of TurboTax's filing process. Wouldn't that alleviate much of this problem?
  - birken 12y ago
    Yeah, it is a bit confusing. There are 2 types of PIN numbers. 1. The E-file PIN (5 digit PIN). This is the one most people use when they e-file. You either use a special IRS website or phone number to get it by verifying basic identification information about yourself. The problem is I believe all of this information is based on your 2013 tax return, so if a criminal has that, they can get your 5-digit PIN. This PIN is also delivered electronically, so there is no verification that the address information you enter is actually your address. So when you are worried about somebody having your 2013 tax return, you are really worried about them stealing your e-file 5-digit PIN number. 2. Then you have the 6-digit PIN, which is generally only given out in the case of proven identity theft (though it seems as part of a pilot program they are giving it out more often). This PIN is mailed to your current address on file with the IRS, and is a randomly generated 6-digit PIN number which changes every year. If you are signed up for this program, your tax return will only be accepted if it has the proper 6 digit PIN number. So if you have this, in order for somebody to fraudulently file a tax return under your name they'd have to steal your mail, which obviously is a lot harder. More details: https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2579455 https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2579455 http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Get-An-Identity-Protection-PIN http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Get-An-Identity-Protection-PI...
clogston 12y ago
No you're not held liable, but it's a giant pain in the butt proving that you're the actual owner of your SSN. It also significantly delays your refund (if you're due a refund).
- ams6110 12y ago
  Another reason I try to arrange my witholding so I owe a little bit.
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting someone filing my taxes fraudulently and paying my bill :)

I don't have much insight into the legal end of this, but I will say I've had (or at least been involved with) "run-ins" with the IRS twice, both times were legitimate misunderstandings on our part. We were in the wrong, but no actual malice was intended. Both times the IRS was quite flexible in getting the problem sorted out. It's just personal experience, but that experience was not of the IRS as a monolithic government body that bulldozes people. They wanted their money and were willing to work with me to get it.

Crito 12y ago
Yeah, that is my experience with dealing with them as well. They actually have very good "customer service" if they don't believe you are deliberately keeping money from them. They want their money, and if you want to give them their money, then they seem to be very reasonable.
mml 12y ago
Nitpick: they wanted your money. It's not "theirs" by any stretch.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  If we're nitpicking, it's the result of a transaction. Granted it's a transaction you're not opting out of, but it's still an exchange of service for payment. By any other measure in a transaction that money ceases to be yours and becomes theirs. We can argue the merits of income tax or taxation in general, but in our (and many similar) systems, it's not your money if you wish to live in the country and thus partake in this transaction.

ceejayoz 12y ago

Assuming you've prepared and filed your own non-fraudulent returns, I can't imagine why you would be.

birken 12y ago

I've had it happen to me. My experience was: 1. Scammer filed a tax return under my name/SSN, probably with a large return to their bank account/address 2. Later in the year I filed my tax return, but it was rejected because it thinks you have already filed 3. I called the IRS, then had to sign and mail affidavit confirming I am me and a fraudulent person filed my return. Then I mailed in my tax return. 4. ~8 months later the IRS mailed me something that confirmed fraud occurred and I wasn't liable for anything. 5. I wasn't audited so presumably they sorted it out and accepted my valid return 6. Now the IRS mails me a PIN number that needs to be used for filing my tax return [1] I'll also note that in all the support phone calls with the IRS, they were really incredibly helpful, pleasant, and I never had any long wait times or anything. 1: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/The-Identity-Protection-PIN-IP-PIN http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/The-Identity-Protection-PIN-I...

slantedview 12y ago
If I recall - a PIN number of some sort is already part of TurboTax's filing process. Wouldn't that alleviate much of this problem?
- birken 12y ago
  Yeah, it is a bit confusing. There are 2 types of PIN numbers. 1. The E-file PIN (5 digit PIN). This is the one most people use when they e-file. You either use a special IRS website or phone number to get it by verifying basic identification information about yourself. The problem is I believe all of this information is based on your 2013 tax return, so if a criminal has that, they can get your 5-digit PIN. This PIN is also delivered electronically, so there is no verification that the address information you enter is actually your address. So when you are worried about somebody having your 2013 tax return, you are really worried about them stealing your e-file 5-digit PIN number. 2. Then you have the 6-digit PIN, which is generally only given out in the case of proven identity theft (though it seems as part of a pilot program they are giving it out more often). This PIN is mailed to your current address on file with the IRS, and is a randomly generated 6-digit PIN number which changes every year. If you are signed up for this program, your tax return will only be accepted if it has the proper 6 digit PIN number. So if you have this, in order for somebody to fraudulently file a tax return under your name they'd have to steal your mail, which obviously is a lot harder. More details: https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2579455 https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2579455 http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Get-An-Identity-Protection-PIN http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Get-An-Identity-Protection-PI...

clogston 12y ago

No you're not held liable, but it's a giant pain in the butt proving that you're the actual owner of your SSN. It also significantly delays your refund (if you're due a refund).

ams6110 12y ago
Another reason I try to arrange my witholding so I owe a little bit.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting someone filing my taxes fraudulently and paying my bill :)