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There was a time where computers was available only to "the priesthood of computing." You had to be in a special group in a very big company (or military resear

by Malic 12y ago

There was a time where computers was available only to "the priesthood of computing." You had to be in a special group in a very big company (or military research setting). Because no one else understood these so-called electronic-brains, few could question you for anything involving The Computer. I think PHP makes some developers frown because it represents an entry point for what they may consider the riffraff of developers. "Anyone can code now - if only a little!" <insert snobbish sniff here> So developers chase off to increasingly intimidating technologies and languages not necessarily because they have SO much more to offer but because the culture represents a return to The Priesthood of days of yore. A few centuries ago, "Don't know Latin? Get out!" and nowadays "Don't know Erlang? Get out!"

metaphorm 12y ago
I disagree with you here. You're discussing a different issue. There is not that much more difficulty in learning computing with any other modern programming language. This isn't about snobbishness or elitism. Its just about the real practical problems that exist with PHP but do not exist (or do, but to a lesser extent) with other modern languages. PHP is somewhat easier to deploy due to the elegance of mod_php and the Apache based LAMP stack. That's one of the things that has driven the proliferation of PHP. Mostly we're just dealing with history and inertia though. PHP offered a streamlined, relatively modern way to program web applications several years before good solutions became widely available in different languages. PHP is almost like a framework in itself, with built in HTML templating, database integration, and HTTP libraries. The builtins in PHP absolutely suck compared to alternatives (including more sophisticated versions of these same things implemented in PHP in frameworks) but that's besides the point. Its possible to build stuff even with shitty tools. The problem is that PHP has a large segment of its community that suffers from something that is almost like the inverse of elitism. Its a kind of willful ignorance or embrace of amateurism. A culture of mediocrity, basically. This is not a good thing for anyone. There are historical reasons behind it in PHP and they are vexing and difficult to overcome, but really they should be overcome, for the good of the future of the web.

by Malic 12y ago

metaphorm 12y ago

I disagree with you here. You're discussing a different issue. There is not that much more difficulty in learning computing with any other modern programming language. This isn't about snobbishness or elitism. Its just about the real practical problems that exist with PHP but do not exist (or do, but to a lesser extent) with other modern languages. PHP is somewhat easier to deploy due to the elegance of mod_php and the Apache based LAMP stack. That's one of the things that has driven the proliferation of PHP. Mostly we're just dealing with history and inertia though. PHP offered a streamlined, relatively modern way to program web applications several years before good solutions became widely available in different languages. PHP is almost like a framework in itself, with built in HTML templating, database integration, and HTTP libraries. The builtins in PHP absolutely suck compared to alternatives (including more sophisticated versions of these same things implemented in PHP in frameworks) but that's besides the point. Its possible to build stuff even with shitty tools. The problem is that PHP has a large segment of its community that suffers from something that is almost like the inverse of elitism. Its a kind of willful ignorance or embrace of amateurism. A culture of mediocrity, basically. This is not a good thing for anyone. There are historical reasons behind it in PHP and they are vexing and difficult to overcome, but really they should be overcome, for the good of the future of the web.