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I think one problem would be how much can we legally restrict from society someone who isn't vaccinated? Can work places restrict this (especially ones like ho

I think one problem would be how much can we legally restrict from society someone who isn't vaccinated? Can work places restrict this (especially ones like hospitals and the like)? What about government jobs? What about health insurance companies? Life insurance companies? Public transportation? Flying? What about the government-subsidized/provided health care? Can they mandate vaccines? They're free to roam about our society as they please (within reason).

sergiosgc 12y ago
Here, it helps that the problem is more acute in children groups. It is acceptable for schools to require proof of vaccination on admission. It is also acceptable for sports clubs to do so on admission. Mixed adult/children environments are not as problematic, because adults resist better to these diseases and so the infection rate gets a lot lower. A lot of text to say that this is a Pareto rule scenario. Cover the 20% of places where kids spend 80% of their social time and you get most of the needed protection.
- notacoward 12y ago
  I think you're missing the point. The question is not whether it's effective for a business to exclude the unvaccinated. The question is whether it's legal, or perhaps whether it's morally acceptable. AFAIK yes it is, and it should stay that way for the exact same "get the government off everyone's back" reason that people use to resist a vaccination mandate. Businesses of all types should have that freedom, and IMO they should use it.
notacoward 12y ago
"Can work places restrict this" Absolutely. Voluntary disease carriers are not a protected class under any law. If there is a scientifically and legally provable threat to others' health and safety, I'd say a business has a responsibility to reduce that threat. The main way these outbreaks start, quite likely including the one at Disneyland, is unvaccinated people coming back from places where measles are still endemic. Those people are walking bioweapons. If they're not going to be quarantined at the border, then it's up to businesses to contain the damage as best they can.
- DrJosiah 12y ago
  A good lawyer could argue that non-vaccinated people are not taking sufficient precautions in preventing themselves from being an accidental bioweapon, and are through voluntary and explicit negligence committing a treasonous act.
- JonFish85 12y ago
  What about the ones that do it for religious reasons? I have to imagine that these are a non-trivial number of people.
  - notacoward 12y ago
    Religion is protected, of course, but the majority of refusals to vaccinate are based on "personal belief" or "philosophical" rather than true religious grounds. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/2013/11/14/76471/the-effect-of-childhood-vaccine-exemptions-on-disease-outbreaks/ https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/20... Unfortunately, once you allow for religious exemptions it becomes hard to distinguish sincere people of faith from the more common agnostic (sometimes even actively atheistic) bioterrorists. Thus, it might be impractical for businesses and their proprietors to exercise their rights in this area.
  - DrJosiah 12y ago
    There are people who claim religious exemptions, but aside from fringe sects of Christianity (some Amish, and a handful of <20k member denominations), no major religion or religious denomination practiced in the US forbids vaccinations.
    - mzs 12y ago
      There are around 100K Christian Scientists in USA, they only must be vaccinated if required by law, and there are religious exemptions most places.
      - DrJosiah 12y ago
Kevguy 12y ago
Most hospitals(1) require all their employees to get yearly flu vaccinations with threat of termination if you refuse. (1) I only have direct experience with two hospitals in the area, but based on other employees reactions, this is standard procedure.

sergiosgc 12y ago

Here, it helps that the problem is more acute in children groups. It is acceptable for schools to require proof of vaccination on admission. It is also acceptable for sports clubs to do so on admission. Mixed adult/children environments are not as problematic, because adults resist better to these diseases and so the infection rate gets a lot lower. A lot of text to say that this is a Pareto rule scenario. Cover the 20% of places where kids spend 80% of their social time and you get most of the needed protection.

notacoward 12y ago
I think you're missing the point. The question is not whether it's effective for a business to exclude the unvaccinated. The question is whether it's legal, or perhaps whether it's morally acceptable. AFAIK yes it is, and it should stay that way for the exact same "get the government off everyone's back" reason that people use to resist a vaccination mandate. Businesses of all types should have that freedom, and IMO they should use it.

notacoward 12y ago

"Can work places restrict this" Absolutely. Voluntary disease carriers are not a protected class under any law. If there is a scientifically and legally provable threat to others' health and safety, I'd say a business has a responsibility to reduce that threat. The main way these outbreaks start, quite likely including the one at Disneyland, is unvaccinated people coming back from places where measles are still endemic. Those people are walking bioweapons. If they're not going to be quarantined at the border, then it's up to businesses to contain the damage as best they can.

DrJosiah 12y ago
A good lawyer could argue that non-vaccinated people are not taking sufficient precautions in preventing themselves from being an accidental bioweapon, and are through voluntary and explicit negligence committing a treasonous act.
JonFish85 12y ago
What about the ones that do it for religious reasons? I have to imagine that these are a non-trivial number of people.
- notacoward 12y ago
  Religion is protected, of course, but the majority of refusals to vaccinate are based on "personal belief" or "philosophical" rather than true religious grounds. https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/2013/11/14/76471/the-effect-of-childhood-vaccine-exemptions-on-disease-outbreaks/ https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/20... Unfortunately, once you allow for religious exemptions it becomes hard to distinguish sincere people of faith from the more common agnostic (sometimes even actively atheistic) bioterrorists. Thus, it might be impractical for businesses and their proprietors to exercise their rights in this area.
- DrJosiah 12y ago
  There are people who claim religious exemptions, but aside from fringe sects of Christianity (some Amish, and a handful of <20k member denominations), no major religion or religious denomination practiced in the US forbids vaccinations.
  - mzs 12y ago
    There are around 100K Christian Scientists in USA, they only must be vaccinated if required by law, and there are religious exemptions most places.
    - DrJosiah 12y ago

Kevguy 12y ago

Most hospitals(1) require all their employees to get yearly flu vaccinations with threat of termination if you refuse. (1) I only have direct experience with two hospitals in the area, but based on other employees reactions, this is standard procedure.