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Internships Abroad: Unpaid, with a $10,000 Price Tag
- rdtsc 12y agoLike article says, unpaid internships, especially in expensive cities, is also a reliable way to select people from upper crust i.e. parents can bankroll their stay in high priced neighborhoods. Sometimes I wonder if that is what some firms and banks are doing. In this case some are using student loans for it. Which is an interesting twist on things.
- screwedup 12y agoTo be fair, paying for an internship might have higher returns than paying for classes. Although that doesn't mean an internship abroad is worth a whole lot more than an internship at home.
- innguest 12y agoThe world sure is changing when the most valuable resource on earth (labor from humans) has to pay to work, and when that is sold as a good idea and potentially better than credentialing.
- jjoonathan 12y agoI'm pretty sure the article was questioning the global optimality not the local optimality of the practice; it came across more as "hey, look at this stupid system" than "hey, look at this stupid guy." Which isn't to say that the article has done convincing global analysis, just that I find handwaving about the "local optima serve as good proxies" assumption to be even less convincing that my gut feelings about the issue.
- jiggy2011 12y agoWhat is the incentive for employers to do this?
- rdtsc 12y agoThe same incentive as people of same status wanting to congregate together. It is a signal. Like say someone wearing a $50K custom watch. It is a small detail but those that "know" will notice. Which is probably one of the main reasons it is worn to begin with.
- MathsOX 12y agoIf you're referring to investment banks, they pay roughly around what the upper ends of SV pays. I just signed a summer analyst internship that's prorated at 90k. I didn't hear of any firms that have structured summer analyst programs, with active campus recruitment, paying any less than 70k prorated to the term of the internship.
- arthurcolle 12y agoCongratulations! I signed with an investment bank as well, you working in Manhattan?
- MathsOX 12y agoThanks very much! Yes, I'm at one of the bulge brackets. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, so the whole interview process has been really interesting.
- poikniok 12y agoAre you working in IB/S&T or software development?
- MathsOX 12y agoS&T. I'm a pure maths student, not CS or finance, which is where an increasing number of the S&T pool is being drawn from.
- poikniok 12y agoVery cool. What group are you going to be working in? Also curious what your ideal career path would be. Are you planning on going to the buyside eventually? As somebody in a similar place, one concern is that while S&T used to be a feeder into HF pre 2008 it seems with the effective death of prop trading at banks nowadays this is a trickier path to navigate.
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- maxxxxx 12y agoYou see something similar in congress in DC. A lot of internships there are unpaid too so most interns come from "good" families.
- screwedup 12y ago>...a junior majoring in history and French at the University of Michigan, had an eight-week internship at a bridal boutique in Paris arranged by Global Experiences. Ms. Friedberg said that the internship, which cost $10,000, was a great learning experience but the grunt work, like serving tea and coffee to customers, got repetitive, convincing her she did not want to work retail. Do French majors really think their best post-grad option is to be a store clerk in a France?
- steve-howard 12y agoIt sounds like these students are getting degree credit for the work. My school had a strict policy against that sort of thing, but you doubtless get much better at French when you spend a lot of structured time in France.
- screwedup 12y agoI guess that's legit if the purpose is language immersion. The article made it sound like she was paying to find out how much she'd enjoy selling clothes.
- tormeh 12y agoThat's just a scam.
- akrolsmir 12y agoA bit of a different perspective: as a CS undergrad in Silicon Valley, internships routinely pay upwards of $20k for a summer, complete with relocation -- simultaneously defraying costs of tuition and providing real work experience. Far from being a mechanism to filter for the upper class, the interns I've worked with came from a diverse range of backgrounds, local, foreign, and all across the States. The tech industry might like to overstate the amount of meritocracy in its system, but at least in this regard internships seem to do well at providing more equal opportunities.
- dperny 12y agoYeah, but you have to be very, very good to get one of those internships. I'm a mid-top tier programmer (better than most of my cohort) from a modest state university. I've been applying everywhere, and there's no way in hell I'll make close to $20k. I'm pretty good at what I do, but there's a gulf between what you get if you're good and what you get if you really good.
- poikniok 12y agoDon't sell yourself short. I am a fairly average programmer coming from a state school, and I made 1800 a week plus housing last summer, and am going to be making 2000 a week plus housing this coming summer. If you are really a mid-top tier programmer opportunities like this and better will be available to you.
- dperny 12y agoWhere do you find these places? I've been blasting job apps since November. I think I've applied at like 15 places. No bites so far.
- courtneypowell 12y agoCheck out realhq.com. If you are interested email Courtney@realhq.com.
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- tuna-piano 12y agoJust a personal experience with an internship abroad. I spent a semester on a combined internship / study abroad program in London (work 2 days, class 2 days). The cost of the program was about ~$15k including living space. While that may sound expensive, I was already paying ~$15k in tuition a semester as an out of state student at a state school. So studying abroad actually ended up being cheaper (with the included living space) than staying at my normal university. There were also several scholarships available to study abroad students to further reduce the cost.
- ilamont 12y agoDid something similar when I was an undergrad. It was arranged through my school. Worked out to be cheaper, and was a great experience -- probably the best of my undergrad years. Led to other opportunities that I never would have had, had I stayed in the U.S. that semester. EDIT: Just looked at the cost for the current semester - it's about 30% less than regular tuition + room & board, although the semester abroad is 3 weeks shorter. Airfare is not factored in.
- jackmaney 12y agoThis should be criminal. Internships need to be paid positions. Period. Anything else is exploitation.
- kszx 12y agoYou are free to reject unpaid internships. You are also free to accept it. --> No coercion. --> No exploitation. In contrast, a law against unpaid internships restricts free choice.
- tomkinstinch 12y agoIn most cases in the US, unpaid internships are illegal, unless they meet certain requirements of the Department of Labor[1]. It mostly boils down to a question of whether or not the employer is getting useful work out of the intern or not (though the rules are different for non-profits). I would guess that most EU countries have similar labor laws, but maybe someone with better knowledge can chime in. 1. http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm
- jackmaney 12y agoI'm sure these "requirements" are tenuously followed at best. Why have someone around in your business who won't do any kind of useful work?