4 ms·

Look at you, your legs, your nose, your fleshy hands, exposed ears ands eyes, soft belly. All soft targets, easily killed, unlike a snake, rhineceros or any ani

by antocv 12y ago

Look at you, your legs, your nose, your fleshy hands, exposed ears ands eyes, soft belly. All soft targets, easily killed, unlike a snake, rhineceros or any animal with at least claws or fangs. You wouldnt survive a week or two if you had to compete with other animals and other humans. Humans are the way we are because of co-operation rather than competition. Humans are group living animals, we do not compete within the group or outside of the group - we co-operate so everyone, the group, can survive.

Qwertious 12y ago
Actually, we do pretty well at competing with other animals - we have hands that are really good at using rifles and spears, not to mention throwing rocks. We used to have tough metal skins, but our rifles became so good that we stopped bothering with them. Humans are the way we are because we figure out a way to cheat.
- antocv 12y ago
  Rifles? Which have existed for what 800 years tops? In an argument which concerns evolution which spans at least 210 000 years to 5 million years? Id like to see you go onto a wild horse with a spear or stick.
cbd1984 12y ago
Trivially, every species is in competition with every other for finite resources to use to perpetuate their gene line. > Look at you, your legs, your nose, your fleshy hands, exposed ears ands eyes, soft belly. All soft targets, easily killed, unlike a snake, rhineceros or any animal with at least claws or fangs. Right. Which is why we have complex language and hands capable of fine motor skills and an innate ability to band together in groups to fight off everything else. Humans doubled down on the "big complex brain" strategy, then doubled again, then kept doubling until we were making marks to keep track of who owned how many cattle. It was a very short step, evolutionarily speaking, from that to the smallpox vaccine, Neil Armstrong, and the Eroica symphony. It was hardly a step at all, in fact. Our brains were so successful that we didn't die of not having claws, fangs, or the ability to reliably have multiple offspring at once. In fact, human heads are pushing up on the size limits of what women can safely push out of the birth canal without endangering either mother or child. In our way, our competitive strategy is just as specialized as a poison dart frog's: Whereas the frog is too toxic to eat, we're too smart to take down. The fact a lot of our smarts comes down to the ability to cooperate within the species does not negate the fact we're competing with other species. Not so much now, perhaps, but I'd consider our competition with the polio virus to be rather heated. (Fairly one-sided, but heated.)
- antocv 12y ago
  I dont see how your post is arguing against what I wrote in parent. You're not so smart so you cant be taken down by yourself, your brain doesnt protect you from claws and fangs. Only as a cooperative group are we strong. Not when competing, but when cooperating. Our brain is the cooperation centre. It has this capacity to feel with others, be it animals or humans.
  - cbd1984 12y ago
    > Not when competing, but when cooperating. Cooperating to do what? To compete against other species and groups of humans!
    - antocv 12y ago
      You're showing a very clear sign of stubbornness. An state of mind which is unwilling and possibly unable to see the world from a different perspective. A closed mind. Go check it up. To answer your question; no, not to compete, but to find the answer to the meaning of all life and explore every corner and creek of this common planet, and together, to enjoy that.
      - cbd1984 12y ago
        You're projecting your emotions on to me. What would it take for me to change your mind? Oh and good luck exploring the world if your species goes extinct because it got outcompeted.
vacri 12y ago
Human tribes often compete with each other, from subsistence fishermen pushing further to get the fish first, ti organised crime gangs vying for turf... right up to coalitions of nations (WWII was largely justified as a fight over resources - from 'lebensraum' to the oilfields of Baku). Humans both co-operate and compete; they're not mutually exclusive concepts.
InclinedPlane 12y ago
Not really, humans are hardy creatures of terrifying durability, ferocity, and cunning. Adverse conditions that would kill many strong animals, humans can endure. Humans can run as far and as fast as horses over long periods of time, and farther and faster than almost any animal that hasn't been specially bred for racing. Humans recover faster from injuries than most animals, generating scar tissue much faster than most creatures. Humans can also persevere through extreme injuries that would debilitate an animal, such as traumatic amputation. Sure you can always engineer a situation where an unprotected human is at a disadvantage compared to a natural predator, but that's an unfair situation which removes most of what a human would rely on (distance, terrain, opportunities for cunning). When humans co-operate they become super apex predators, but even alone, unarmed, they are formidable.
facepalm 12y ago
Apparently being able to sweat is one of the key advantages of humans. Few can compete with humans in long distance running, and following prey until they are exhausted is a common human hunting tactic. Don't underestimate that soft skin. Also, allowed humans to hold out in all sorts of climate zones of the world.

by antocv 12y ago

Qwertious 12y ago

Actually, we do pretty well at competing with other animals - we have hands that are really good at using rifles and spears, not to mention throwing rocks. We used to have tough metal skins, but our rifles became so good that we stopped bothering with them. Humans are the way we are because we figure out a way to cheat.

antocv 12y ago
Rifles? Which have existed for what 800 years tops? In an argument which concerns evolution which spans at least 210 000 years to 5 million years? Id like to see you go onto a wild horse with a spear or stick.

cbd1984 12y ago

Trivially, every species is in competition with every other for finite resources to use to perpetuate their gene line. > Look at you, your legs, your nose, your fleshy hands, exposed ears ands eyes, soft belly. All soft targets, easily killed, unlike a snake, rhineceros or any animal with at least claws or fangs. Right. Which is why we have complex language and hands capable of fine motor skills and an innate ability to band together in groups to fight off everything else. Humans doubled down on the "big complex brain" strategy, then doubled again, then kept doubling until we were making marks to keep track of who owned how many cattle. It was a very short step, evolutionarily speaking, from that to the smallpox vaccine, Neil Armstrong, and the Eroica symphony. It was hardly a step at all, in fact. Our brains were so successful that we didn't die of not having claws, fangs, or the ability to reliably have multiple offspring at once. In fact, human heads are pushing up on the size limits of what women can safely push out of the birth canal without endangering either mother or child. In our way, our competitive strategy is just as specialized as a poison dart frog's: Whereas the frog is too toxic to eat, we're too smart to take down. The fact a lot of our smarts comes down to the ability to cooperate within the species does not negate the fact we're competing with other species. Not so much now, perhaps, but I'd consider our competition with the polio virus to be rather heated. (Fairly one-sided, but heated.)

antocv 12y ago
I dont see how your post is arguing against what I wrote in parent. You're not so smart so you cant be taken down by yourself, your brain doesnt protect you from claws and fangs. Only as a cooperative group are we strong. Not when competing, but when cooperating. Our brain is the cooperation centre. It has this capacity to feel with others, be it animals or humans.
- cbd1984 12y ago
  > Not when competing, but when cooperating. Cooperating to do what? To compete against other species and groups of humans!
  - antocv 12y ago
    You're showing a very clear sign of stubbornness. An state of mind which is unwilling and possibly unable to see the world from a different perspective. A closed mind. Go check it up. To answer your question; no, not to compete, but to find the answer to the meaning of all life and explore every corner and creek of this common planet, and together, to enjoy that.
    - cbd1984 12y ago
      You're projecting your emotions on to me. What would it take for me to change your mind? Oh and good luck exploring the world if your species goes extinct because it got outcompeted.

vacri 12y ago

Human tribes often compete with each other, from subsistence fishermen pushing further to get the fish first, ti organised crime gangs vying for turf... right up to coalitions of nations (WWII was largely justified as a fight over resources - from 'lebensraum' to the oilfields of Baku). Humans both co-operate and compete; they're not mutually exclusive concepts.

InclinedPlane 12y ago

Not really, humans are hardy creatures of terrifying durability, ferocity, and cunning. Adverse conditions that would kill many strong animals, humans can endure. Humans can run as far and as fast as horses over long periods of time, and farther and faster than almost any animal that hasn't been specially bred for racing. Humans recover faster from injuries than most animals, generating scar tissue much faster than most creatures. Humans can also persevere through extreme injuries that would debilitate an animal, such as traumatic amputation. Sure you can always engineer a situation where an unprotected human is at a disadvantage compared to a natural predator, but that's an unfair situation which removes most of what a human would rely on (distance, terrain, opportunities for cunning). When humans co-operate they become super apex predators, but even alone, unarmed, they are formidable.

facepalm 12y ago

Apparently being able to sweat is one of the key advantages of humans. Few can compete with humans in long distance running, and following prey until they are exhausted is a common human hunting tactic. Don't underestimate that soft skin. Also, allowed humans to hold out in all sorts of climate zones of the world.