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As I'm told by my company that me leaving would break the deal for everyone. That's not what I want, but it's also not a good deal for me (especially compared t

by welch 12y ago

As I'm told by my company that me leaving would break the deal for everyone. That's not what I want, but it's also not a good deal for me (especially compared to other offers I get)

swampangel 12y ago
Ask them to make a better offer. If they can't/won't do that for you, why would you be expected to make a sacrifice for them? Regardless, your old company can't compel you to go work for a new employer. Morally or legally. Alternately, what's to stop you from accepting the deal and then leaving in 4-6 months anyway?
pjungwir 12y ago
That's a lot of pressure to put on you! If you are really that special an employee, you should ask yourself if there is anything that would convince you to stay. It sounds like you have a great negotiating position. Often people---especially programmers---feel uncomfortable asking for what they want. If the current deal isn't benefiting you personally and you're that important, then tell them what it would take to keep you. If there is really nothing at all that would make you stay, then I don't think you're obliged to stick around. But you might want to talk with a spouse/friend/family member before making that decision. Good luck!
serve_yay 12y ago
If you're so important then they should be offering you $$$ that you would have to be crazy to refuse. If they're not, then something is up. And quite frankly it's bullshit to put that kind of pressure on someone who is not actually driving the deal. I dunno, my spidey-senses are tingling.
- welch 12y ago
  Yes, it's definitely not easy to live, all the more as you don't have all the insights and aren't sure to know/understand everything at stake.
  - brudgers 12y ago
    If you're necessary to the deal going through, then you should have been consulted when that first came to light. I suspect that if you are part of the deal, if you wanted to work for the acquiring company, you could have already gotten a job there long ago. Clearly they were not your first choice of places to work. The terms that are being offered don't change that, and perhaps no terms can. That's o.k.
DanBC 12y ago
But it's not you breaking the deal! It is entirely them breaking the deal for everyone by fucking you over. There is some package of wage and conditions that you would accept. If they're not offering that then it's entirely on them if you leave, not you.
Spoom 12y ago
Wow, that's a hell of a starting negotiation position. Ask them for a little over what you would actually like out of the deal. It sounds like they really can't turn you down.
walterbell 12y ago
>me leaving would break the deal for everyone Will your compensation be > SUM( everyone's compensation)?
davidu 12y ago
Just quit after the deal goes through. You are not a slave.
- jackmaney 12y ago
  Or quit before the deal goes through...
- MagaManGo 12y ago
  His power is strongest 'before' the deal goes through.
AndyNemmity 12y ago
There's a lot of guilting people into taking bad deals in startups. At least that's my experience. I've seen it happen numerous times, and experienced it.
- welch 12y ago
  Interesting. The question for sure is to know what is a bad deal. It may be very personal and just depend on the position offered (+ you never know what others/founders are actually getting).
trcollinson 12y ago
It is very likely that you were named in one of the acquisition documents as a key employee. This can mean that your leaving would, literally, stop the deal. I was in a similar position about 10 years ago. I was a key employee during the acquisition and subsequent merger of a business and I was named as such in the acquisition documents. However, while I was offered a relatively ok position with the new company, many other companies were offering me better opportunities. One thing you must understand about the sale of a business is everything is very quiet because everyone is afraid of being screwed over. The company you work for wants the sale to go through and to have their exit be fruitful after many years of work. The company buying your company would like to get all of the assets, of which you are one, and make the new entity profitable for them in some way. You want to be treated well and see an exit that you believe you deserve, and so on. This is a tough balancing act and unfortunately, not a situation most people treat very honestly. I was there! I know how you feel. What I did was stayed until the documents were signs. I was officially an employee of the new company for one day. The companies were officially (from a legal standpoint) merged. I then went to my new bosses and said "Now that the companies are merged, I need you to make this right for me by giving me X, Y, and Z." They said, "No way, you have a job, get back to work." I then packed up my stuff and left to one of my other job offers. I got what I wanted. The company I had worked for got the exit they wanted. The new company wasn't very happy but never the less got the merger they paid for. At any rate, your milage may vary. Situations like this suck! But remember deep down this is business. Do what you need to do to make yourself and your family or whatnot comfortable and happy.
- kohanz 12y ago
  Great, insightful reply from somebody who's been there. As someone who has not been there and has zero experience in this, I'm left wondering whether you had more leverage to ask for "X,Y, and Z" before the deal closed. Not from the acquirer (avoid risking the deal), but from your employer. Surely if you explained the situation and how it is relatively unfair from your perspective, they might be able to negotiate on your behalf?
  - trcollinson 12y ago
    Great question! And yes I actually did do that. However the owner of the company I was working for (the company that was being acquired), was not helpful at all. We were quite good personal friends from high school. What happened was unfortunate. We had really turned his company around together and made some great strides in a short period of time. We had talked about my exit from the company from the very moment I arrived. However, when the time came to be acquired he became rather greedy. He even said to me at one point, "Your portion shouldn't have to come out of my hide." At any rate, the relationship deteriorated, which is not uncommon when a company is being bought or sold. We kept our smiles on until the acquisition was complete.
jackmaney 12y ago
Corporate loyalty is dead. Your employer would not hesitate to let you go in an instant--destroying your livelihood in the process--if it meant better ROI for them. Why show anything resembling loyalty in return? If the acquisition deal hinged upon you staying and if you want to go, then too bad. The deal is off. That's not your concern. If that means that your (former) employer crumbles, then so be it.
fsk 12y ago
If you have a specific job offer from someplace else that is more than you would get by staying, take it! Go! When I recently switched from a startup for a 30% raise, the CEO was pretty hostile. It actually made me feel better about leaving. If you want to be polite, give them a chance to counter-offer, but you already told them that you thought you were underpaid, so you don't owe them that. Also, if you get an offer that says "You get $X when the merger closes.", what happens if the deal falls through? What happens if the close date gets pushed back for a year? Remember the time value of money; you would have been better off taking the other offer if that happens.

by welch 12y ago

As I'm told by my company that me leaving would break the deal for everyone. That's not what I want, but it's also not a good deal for me (especially compared to other offers I get)

swampangel 12y ago

Ask them to make a better offer. If they can't/won't do that for you, why would you be expected to make a sacrifice for them? Regardless, your old company can't compel you to go work for a new employer. Morally or legally. Alternately, what's to stop you from accepting the deal and then leaving in 4-6 months anyway?

pjungwir 12y ago

That's a lot of pressure to put on you! If you are really that special an employee, you should ask yourself if there is anything that would convince you to stay. It sounds like you have a great negotiating position. Often people---especially programmers---feel uncomfortable asking for what they want. If the current deal isn't benefiting you personally and you're that important, then tell them what it would take to keep you. If there is really nothing at all that would make you stay, then I don't think you're obliged to stick around. But you might want to talk with a spouse/friend/family member before making that decision. Good luck!

serve_yay 12y ago

If you're so important then they should be offering you $$$ that you would have to be crazy to refuse. If they're not, then something is up. And quite frankly it's bullshit to put that kind of pressure on someone who is not actually driving the deal. I dunno, my spidey-senses are tingling.

welch 12y ago
Yes, it's definitely not easy to live, all the more as you don't have all the insights and aren't sure to know/understand everything at stake.
- brudgers 12y ago
  If you're necessary to the deal going through, then you should have been consulted when that first came to light. I suspect that if you are part of the deal, if you wanted to work for the acquiring company, you could have already gotten a job there long ago. Clearly they were not your first choice of places to work. The terms that are being offered don't change that, and perhaps no terms can. That's o.k.

DanBC 12y ago

But it's not you breaking the deal! It is entirely them breaking the deal for everyone by fucking you over. There is some package of wage and conditions that you would accept. If they're not offering that then it's entirely on them if you leave, not you.

Spoom 12y ago

Wow, that's a hell of a starting negotiation position. Ask them for a little over what you would actually like out of the deal. It sounds like they really can't turn you down.

walterbell 12y ago

>me leaving would break the deal for everyone Will your compensation be > SUM( everyone's compensation)?

davidu 12y ago

Just quit after the deal goes through. You are not a slave.

jackmaney 12y ago
Or quit before the deal goes through...
MagaManGo 12y ago
His power is strongest 'before' the deal goes through.

AndyNemmity 12y ago

There's a lot of guilting people into taking bad deals in startups. At least that's my experience. I've seen it happen numerous times, and experienced it.

welch 12y ago
Interesting. The question for sure is to know what is a bad deal. It may be very personal and just depend on the position offered (+ you never know what others/founders are actually getting).

trcollinson 12y ago

It is very likely that you were named in one of the acquisition documents as a key employee. This can mean that your leaving would, literally, stop the deal. I was in a similar position about 10 years ago. I was a key employee during the acquisition and subsequent merger of a business and I was named as such in the acquisition documents. However, while I was offered a relatively ok position with the new company, many other companies were offering me better opportunities. One thing you must understand about the sale of a business is everything is very quiet because everyone is afraid of being screwed over. The company you work for wants the sale to go through and to have their exit be fruitful after many years of work. The company buying your company would like to get all of the assets, of which you are one, and make the new entity profitable for them in some way. You want to be treated well and see an exit that you believe you deserve, and so on. This is a tough balancing act and unfortunately, not a situation most people treat very honestly. I was there! I know how you feel. What I did was stayed until the documents were signs. I was officially an employee of the new company for one day. The companies were officially (from a legal standpoint) merged. I then went to my new bosses and said "Now that the companies are merged, I need you to make this right for me by giving me X, Y, and Z." They said, "No way, you have a job, get back to work." I then packed up my stuff and left to one of my other job offers. I got what I wanted. The company I had worked for got the exit they wanted. The new company wasn't very happy but never the less got the merger they paid for. At any rate, your milage may vary. Situations like this suck! But remember deep down this is business. Do what you need to do to make yourself and your family or whatnot comfortable and happy.

kohanz 12y ago
Great, insightful reply from somebody who's been there. As someone who has not been there and has zero experience in this, I'm left wondering whether you had more leverage to ask for "X,Y, and Z" before the deal closed. Not from the acquirer (avoid risking the deal), but from your employer. Surely if you explained the situation and how it is relatively unfair from your perspective, they might be able to negotiate on your behalf?
- trcollinson 12y ago
  Great question! And yes I actually did do that. However the owner of the company I was working for (the company that was being acquired), was not helpful at all. We were quite good personal friends from high school. What happened was unfortunate. We had really turned his company around together and made some great strides in a short period of time. We had talked about my exit from the company from the very moment I arrived. However, when the time came to be acquired he became rather greedy. He even said to me at one point, "Your portion shouldn't have to come out of my hide." At any rate, the relationship deteriorated, which is not uncommon when a company is being bought or sold. We kept our smiles on until the acquisition was complete.

jackmaney 12y ago

Corporate loyalty is dead. Your employer would not hesitate to let you go in an instant--destroying your livelihood in the process--if it meant better ROI for them. Why show anything resembling loyalty in return? If the acquisition deal hinged upon you staying and if you want to go, then too bad. The deal is off. That's not your concern. If that means that your (former) employer crumbles, then so be it.

fsk 12y ago

If you have a specific job offer from someplace else that is more than you would get by staying, take it! Go! When I recently switched from a startup for a 30% raise, the CEO was pretty hostile. It actually made me feel better about leaving. If you want to be polite, give them a chance to counter-offer, but you already told them that you thought you were underpaid, so you don't owe them that. Also, if you get an offer that says "You get $X when the merger closes.", what happens if the deal falls through? What happens if the close date gets pushed back for a year? Remember the time value of money; you would have been better off taking the other offer if that happens.