4 ms·

That's cool and all, but maybe we should make sure kids have the basics down first. An elementary school in my town had an attachment for sixth graders being h

by zhemao 12y ago

That's cool and all, but maybe we should make sure kids have the basics down first. An elementary school in my town had an attachment for sixth graders being held back from advancing to middle school because they were functionally illiterate. Somehow, none of their teachers in five years of school noticed this. Once all students are literate and have a grasp of basic mathematics, then maybe we can talk about teaching "discovery".

novalis78 12y ago
This is so true. When my eldest was in 2nd grade I asked when they would be learning how to (finally) start learning cursive. The school's response was that they don't need cursive anymore because soon everyone will just be typing. Great, I said, so when are you starting your touch typing class? School response: oh, we won't need to teach that either, because in the future people will just talk to their computers...(this was in Florida, one of the top school districts, highly acclaimed A+ elementary school). I don't think banking on the Singularity and a benign AI should be the education system's only policy... I could barely decipher the 3rd-4th graders' texts. Spelling mistakes everywhere ("Don't want to stifle their creativity"). The daughter of a neighboring family did terribly at math. The school thought she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who concluded that she did not know her multiplication table. Are you serious? Five years and no basic, fundamental skills taught (but it's all about self-esteem, creativity, exploration...). The girl started memorizing the times table, finally, passed the last exams already improved. At the middle school they evaluated her 6 months later and found that she was "way ahead of the class" - this is sad! The ongoing war on memorization and lack of basic and elementary skills like proper writing and mental math (from what I could see as a German expatriate) makes it all unnecessarily hard for students.
- Terr_ 12y ago
  > The school thought she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who concluded that she did not know her multiplication table. [...] The ongoing war on memorization This might be down to different personal experiences, but... Is the "War on Memorization" the same as the perennial "War on Christmas", while both become more and more popular? My memory is that memorization (like Christmas) was rife throughout the test-centric establishment, because it was the easiest thing to make multiple-choice tests for, demanded relatively little from the teachers, and made it simpler to create state-wide tests than more subjective fare. What if there's plenty of memorization, but none of it takes because there's no application, and because the student just moves to the next thing they have to memorize?
  - novalis78 12y ago
    Interesting. We had very little multiple choice tests at school (Germany) and did not consider learning for it "memorization". Memorization was trained for on purpose by memorizing passages of text, famous/important works of literature/poetry. The idea was the the skill of memorization would be helpful generally speaking. Most tests where free form - i.e. you had to be sufficiently capable of spelling/writing/explaining yourself on top of answering the question at hand. In math/physics this included, obviously, knowing equations and formulas by heart as they were not given. Several such hour long written exams had a huge impact on your term grade. The other emphasis was on oral exams (in front of the entire class), which were also quite frequent and typically involved being able to express in your own words questions related to topics covered over several months.
    - ende 12y ago
      Im curious, how would the German system in your experience handle students with poor memory, severe social anxiety, dyslexia, ADHD, etc?
      - novalis78 12y ago
        They used to separate kids at every corner - thus the various school types. Same for Austria. This is ca. 2-3 decades ago. ADHD was unknown. Kids that had consistent learning problems would keep repeating classes until they reached the minimum age at which they would train at vocational/trade schools.

by zhemao 12y ago

novalis78 12y ago

This is so true. When my eldest was in 2nd grade I asked when they would be learning how to (finally) start learning cursive. The school's response was that they don't need cursive anymore because soon everyone will just be typing. Great, I said, so when are you starting your touch typing class? School response: oh, we won't need to teach that either, because in the future people will just talk to their computers...(this was in Florida, one of the top school districts, highly acclaimed A+ elementary school). I don't think banking on the Singularity and a benign AI should be the education system's only policy... I could barely decipher the 3rd-4th graders' texts. Spelling mistakes everywhere ("Don't want to stifle their creativity"). The daughter of a neighboring family did terribly at math. The school thought she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who concluded that she did not know her multiplication table. Are you serious? Five years and no basic, fundamental skills taught (but it's all about self-esteem, creativity, exploration...). The girl started memorizing the times table, finally, passed the last exams already improved. At the middle school they evaluated her 6 months later and found that she was "way ahead of the class" - this is sad! The ongoing war on memorization and lack of basic and elementary skills like proper writing and mental math (from what I could see as a German expatriate) makes it all unnecessarily hard for students.

Terr_ 12y ago
> The school thought she needed to repeat 5th grade. They got a tutor who concluded that she did not know her multiplication table. [...] The ongoing war on memorization This might be down to different personal experiences, but... Is the "War on Memorization" the same as the perennial "War on Christmas", while both become more and more popular? My memory is that memorization (like Christmas) was rife throughout the test-centric establishment, because it was the easiest thing to make multiple-choice tests for, demanded relatively little from the teachers, and made it simpler to create state-wide tests than more subjective fare. What if there's plenty of memorization, but none of it takes because there's no application, and because the student just moves to the next thing they have to memorize?
- novalis78 12y ago
  Interesting. We had very little multiple choice tests at school (Germany) and did not consider learning for it "memorization". Memorization was trained for on purpose by memorizing passages of text, famous/important works of literature/poetry. The idea was the the skill of memorization would be helpful generally speaking. Most tests where free form - i.e. you had to be sufficiently capable of spelling/writing/explaining yourself on top of answering the question at hand. In math/physics this included, obviously, knowing equations and formulas by heart as they were not given. Several such hour long written exams had a huge impact on your term grade. The other emphasis was on oral exams (in front of the entire class), which were also quite frequent and typically involved being able to express in your own words questions related to topics covered over several months.
  - ende 12y ago
    Im curious, how would the German system in your experience handle students with poor memory, severe social anxiety, dyslexia, ADHD, etc?
    - novalis78 12y ago
      They used to separate kids at every corner - thus the various school types. Same for Austria. This is ca. 2-3 decades ago. ADHD was unknown. Kids that had consistent learning problems would keep repeating classes until they reached the minimum age at which they would train at vocational/trade schools.