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Are you ignoring the attempt to have several people killed? Even if it seems he was actually getting scammed, it sure looks like he tried to arrange murder for

by moyix 12y ago

Are you ignoring the attempt to have several people killed? Even if it seems he was actually getting scammed, it sure looks like he tried to arrange murder for hire.

mburns 12y ago
He wasn't on trial for soliciting murder.
- npizzolato 12y ago
  Well, he is charged with soliciting murder. It just wasn't this trial. > "Ulbricht is charged with a murder-for-hire scheme in a separate case in federal court in Baltimore." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/us-says-silk-roads-ulbricht-solicited-six-murders-for-hire https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/us-says-s...
forgotpasswd3x 12y ago
I'm assuming he was talking about what they charged him with, in the article it states: "Ulbricht didn’t face murder solicitation charges in the trial and prosecutors said they don’t believe any murders were carried out."
Alupis 12y ago
Have you read the transcripts of his supposed "murder for hire" discussions? They are with a supposed Hell's Angel, who, right on the first email, opens up about his business dealings, what he does, how he does it, etc. It's waaaaaaaay to open and forthcoming for a hardened and experienced criminal to just flat out say things like: > Also, we have kidnapped friendlychemists partner Xin already and are on the hunt for friendlychemist. > We are all familiar with PGP as we have been using it for years via email linked to our smartphones. It’s the only way we communicate with each other aside from in person, since phone calls are not secure. > After some “questioning” he admitted he was intending on moving to a different country and setting up a new seller account on this site. We don’t take too kindly to thieves. He’s gone. > If you have your mind set on just finding his location, I can talk to them and get them to get it for you for a fee (not sure what amount as usually when we hunt someone, there is more involved after we find them). > I can almost guarantee it, but I stop short of guaranteeing anything unless I am 100% certain I can get the job done. I do that so I don’t look like an idiot if I can’t accomplish something I have said I can. It reads like a novel (or more likely a LE agent baiting him). Would also explain why none of the "victims" were ever really identified, nor any missing persons reports filed. Doesn't excuse what DPR did, just saying this part of the prosecution's story doesn't sit well with me. ~~ Edit: Here's the supposed conversation about the "hits" for reference http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss...
- moyix 12y ago
  The prosecution said that they believe this conversation was actually someone scamming him, and that there were in fact no murders carried out. It clearly shows that DPR tried to have people killed, though (unless you think there's wholesale fabrication of evidence going on, which is getting into conspiracy theory land).
  - tedks 12y ago
    What if DPR believed he was being scammed?
    - xorcist 12y ago
      He paid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin to the assassin after the hit. If he believed he was scammed, he certainly loved it and paid soundly for the privilege. It's all in the cleartext logs of Ulbricht's laptop.
      - Alupis 12y ago
        > He paid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin to the assassin after the hit In total it was $750,000 for 5 "hits".
      - tedks 12y ago
        But he had millions of Bitcoin, and every reason to believe that Bitcoin would rise in value. He lived very modestly for what he had, so it's not like this is anything other than a number in a computer fro him. This was discussed in depth on HN when the story first broke -- unless I'm wrong the story goes something like this: S1: I will disclose the silk road's confidential information unless you pay me $500k, because I owe S2 that money. DPR: Let me talk to S2. S2: Hello, this is S2. DPR: I will give you $150k to kill S1. I have paid much less for a hit, so consider yourself lucky to get this deal. S2: Done and done, have a nice day. Paying to "have someone killed" is a good way to give them some money, but not the money they wanted, while still scaring them off.
  - 12y ago
jMyles 12y ago
Do you have any evidence that this occurred? Have you ever seen any? The government hasn't provided it. These are out-and-out lies, designed to impugn his public credibility. It seems to have worked with some of the comments in this thread. If you believe that he was the violent psychopath portrayed at the bail proceeding, how do you feel about the government neglecting to charge him with those crimes?
- aceperry 12y ago
  "how do you feel about the government neglecting to charge him with those crimes?" I understand that the government will try Ulbricht for those crimes. How do you feel about being informed of the facts?
  - jMyles 12y ago
    I'm not pretending the federal charges in Baltimore don't exist - although I do think they're not credible. I asked you about presenting this material during the bail proceeding - and his being denied bail on that basis - without yet having charged him. Does this not outrage you?
    - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
      That's exactly how bail hearings work. Just because something isn't yet proven in the eyes of the law doesn't mean it shouldn't factor into bail.
    - gamblor956 12y ago
      No, because part of the reason he was denied bail is that he had a relative fortune of several million in Bitcoins, not all of which have been traced, and is thus a serious flight risk given the severity of the charges against him.
    - aceperry 12y ago
      "Does this not outrage you?" It does not outrage me. I'm more outraged, well maybe not outraged but concerned, by your strange and desperate claims of Ulbrict's innocence.

by moyix 12y ago

Are you ignoring the attempt to have several people killed? Even if it seems he was actually getting scammed, it sure looks like he tried to arrange murder for hire.

mburns 12y ago

He wasn't on trial for soliciting murder.

npizzolato 12y ago
Well, he is charged with soliciting murder. It just wasn't this trial. > "Ulbricht is charged with a murder-for-hire scheme in a separate case in federal court in Baltimore." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/us-says-silk-roads-ulbricht-solicited-six-murders-for-hire https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/us-says-s...

forgotpasswd3x 12y ago

I'm assuming he was talking about what they charged him with, in the article it states: "Ulbricht didn’t face murder solicitation charges in the trial and prosecutors said they don’t believe any murders were carried out."

Alupis 12y ago

Have you read the transcripts of his supposed "murder for hire" discussions? They are with a supposed Hell's Angel, who, right on the first email, opens up about his business dealings, what he does, how he does it, etc. It's waaaaaaaay to open and forthcoming for a hardened and experienced criminal to just flat out say things like: > Also, we have kidnapped friendlychemists partner Xin already and are on the hunt for friendlychemist. > We are all familiar with PGP as we have been using it for years via email linked to our smartphones. It’s the only way we communicate with each other aside from in person, since phone calls are not secure. > After some “questioning” he admitted he was intending on moving to a different country and setting up a new seller account on this site. We don’t take too kindly to thieves. He’s gone. > If you have your mind set on just finding his location, I can talk to them and get them to get it for you for a fee (not sure what amount as usually when we hunt someone, there is more involved after we find them). > I can almost guarantee it, but I stop short of guaranteeing anything unless I am 100% certain I can get the job done. I do that so I don’t look like an idiot if I can’t accomplish something I have said I can. It reads like a novel (or more likely a LE agent baiting him). Would also explain why none of the "victims" were ever really identified, nor any missing persons reports filed. Doesn't excuse what DPR did, just saying this part of the prosecution's story doesn't sit well with me. ~~ Edit: Here's the supposed conversation about the "hits" for reference http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss...

moyix 12y ago
The prosecution said that they believe this conversation was actually someone scamming him, and that there were in fact no murders carried out. It clearly shows that DPR tried to have people killed, though (unless you think there's wholesale fabrication of evidence going on, which is getting into conspiracy theory land).
- tedks 12y ago
  What if DPR believed he was being scammed?
  - xorcist 12y ago
    He paid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin to the assassin after the hit. If he believed he was scammed, he certainly loved it and paid soundly for the privilege. It's all in the cleartext logs of Ulbricht's laptop.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      > He paid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin to the assassin after the hit In total it was $750,000 for 5 "hits".
    - tedks 12y ago
      But he had millions of Bitcoin, and every reason to believe that Bitcoin would rise in value. He lived very modestly for what he had, so it's not like this is anything other than a number in a computer fro him. This was discussed in depth on HN when the story first broke -- unless I'm wrong the story goes something like this: S1: I will disclose the silk road's confidential information unless you pay me $500k, because I owe S2 that money. DPR: Let me talk to S2. S2: Hello, this is S2. DPR: I will give you $150k to kill S1. I have paid much less for a hit, so consider yourself lucky to get this deal. S2: Done and done, have a nice day. Paying to "have someone killed" is a good way to give them some money, but not the money they wanted, while still scaring them off.
- 12y ago

jMyles 12y ago

Do you have any evidence that this occurred? Have you ever seen any? The government hasn't provided it. These are out-and-out lies, designed to impugn his public credibility. It seems to have worked with some of the comments in this thread. If you believe that he was the violent psychopath portrayed at the bail proceeding, how do you feel about the government neglecting to charge him with those crimes?

aceperry 12y ago
"how do you feel about the government neglecting to charge him with those crimes?" I understand that the government will try Ulbricht for those crimes. How do you feel about being informed of the facts?
- jMyles 12y ago
  I'm not pretending the federal charges in Baltimore don't exist - although I do think they're not credible. I asked you about presenting this material during the bail proceeding - and his being denied bail on that basis - without yet having charged him. Does this not outrage you?
  - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
    That's exactly how bail hearings work. Just because something isn't yet proven in the eyes of the law doesn't mean it shouldn't factor into bail.
  - gamblor956 12y ago
    No, because part of the reason he was denied bail is that he had a relative fortune of several million in Bitcoins, not all of which have been traced, and is thus a serious flight risk given the severity of the charges against him.
  - aceperry 12y ago
    "Does this not outrage you?" It does not outrage me. I'm more outraged, well maybe not outraged but concerned, by your strange and desperate claims of Ulbrict's innocence.