4 ms·

Five years on and ZFS still remains just out of reach. I'm not a likely user on OS X (anyone got a good use case for laptop use?) but other filesystem + volume

by jbyers 17y ago

Five years on and ZFS still remains just out of reach. I'm not a likely user on OS X (anyone got a good use case for laptop use?) but other filesystem + volume management solutions on Linux never seem to match up.

lallysingh 17y ago
Very good sleep, hibernate, and wakeup behavior.
cookiecaper 17y ago
Here's hoping btrfs keeps it real.
- jeduan 17y ago
  Don't know, Gruber mentions something about ZFS being now related to Oracle as a bad thing, and the ties of btrfs and Oracle may do this another no-go from legal
  - whopa 17y ago
    btrfs is GPL, which is an automatic no-go for Apple legal. I'm curious, where does the Apple/Oracle bad blood speculation come from? I don't remember seeing any references to it before, so was Gruber just grasping at things? The NetApp lawsuit seems way more plausible.
    - jws 17y ago
      If Apple wants it then, btrfs' license is irrelevant to Apple as long as there isn't patent encumbrance. Apple can dispatch a team of flying monkeys to clone a btrfs implementation under whatever license they choose. wc linuc-2.6.31/fs/btrfs/*.[hc] says 50k lines of text. Call it 20 flying monkey years of coding.
    - tesseract 17y ago
      Much of the lower levels of Mac OS X (including the compiler, which at the moment is gcc, although Apple is moving toward LLVM/clang...) is GPL. CUPS, which is now managed and primarily maintained by Apple, is GPL.
      - buster 17y ago
        i'd say "much" is exaggerated. More like "in a few places where they couldn't rip off MIT/BSD licensed code". It's a shame that Apples success i based on a lot open source code but they give so little back to the community.
        durin42 17y ago
        Give so little back? Really? libdispatch was something purely in-house. They're giving it away. Same for launchd, although other groups inexplicably feel a need to recreate it from scratch. They're employing major contributors to LLVM/clang and having them work fulltime on those projects. CalendarServer is a fantastic CalDav server, which they're giving away. Don't say they give "so little" back to the community. While I may really hate what's going on with ZFS right now, your statement wasn't really fair to them.
        buster 17y ago
        Probably harsh, but nevertheless my point of view. When i look at http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=microsoft+vs.+apple+vs+google+vs+intel http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=microsoft+vs.+apple+vs+... and compare apples size in terms of employees, revenue... it's a _huge_ company with lots of money. Now i look at what it does in the open source world... From my perspective a lot of what i see on macs today has it's origins in the open source world and apple wouldn't be where it is today with open source (webkit came from khtml, mac os x kernel partly from freebsd, calendar server is based on twisted, afaik). Now you tell me that the company that tries to lock it's customers in their ecosystem with a lot of proprietary software&hardware (hello quicktime, hello itunes), that it's particularly open source friendly? It sure as hell is not. I could nearly bet that MS does more open source then apple. If it's not already the case, apple is heading in that direction.
- dtf 17y ago
  Me too. Ted Ts'o (ext4's maintainer) has said the btrfs is the future.
  - rbanffy 17y ago
    Just to make sure: is the guy happily married? ;-)
    - cpach 17y ago
      I guess this was a reference to Hans Reiser killing his wife. Do you really think domestic violence is a laughing matter?
      - dkarl 17y ago
        Everything's a laughing matter if it happens to you, so by the Golden Rule it should be a laughing matter if it happens to someone else.
arete 17y ago
How about checksums to detect corruption on those fragile spinning disks you're picking up and carrying around the room? Or quick and efficient snapshots, scheduled frequently? This is seriously disappointing, if not surprising.
- petsos 17y ago
  Another useful laptop feature is the option to use duplicate blocks as a poor man's RAID (zfs set copies option). Could be used for system files or other critical data.
rbanffy 17y ago
"anyone got a good use case for laptop use?" Their laptops are gorgeus. OK... The OS is not my favorite. It's currently a tie with OpenSolaris for me (nicer GUI on one, package management on the other), but both bot are behind Jaunty (and probably will be behind Karmic)
- dschobel 17y ago
  I believe OP was speaking about the filesystem specifically.
rbanffy 17y ago
I would not call it out of reach. You can download OpenSolaris and use it. The Gnome desktop is a bit older than Ubuntu or Fedora, but, still, it's usable.
bayareaguy 17y ago
anyone got a good use case for laptop use? I may be in the minority but I would have liked the opportunity to use the same filesystem on my OSX laptop that I do on my database server.

by jbyers 17y ago

lallysingh 17y ago

Very good sleep, hibernate, and wakeup behavior.

cookiecaper 17y ago

Here's hoping btrfs keeps it real.

jeduan 17y ago
Don't know, Gruber mentions something about ZFS being now related to Oracle as a bad thing, and the ties of btrfs and Oracle may do this another no-go from legal
- whopa 17y ago
  btrfs is GPL, which is an automatic no-go for Apple legal. I'm curious, where does the Apple/Oracle bad blood speculation come from? I don't remember seeing any references to it before, so was Gruber just grasping at things? The NetApp lawsuit seems way more plausible.
  - jws 17y ago
    If Apple wants it then, btrfs' license is irrelevant to Apple as long as there isn't patent encumbrance. Apple can dispatch a team of flying monkeys to clone a btrfs implementation under whatever license they choose. wc linuc-2.6.31/fs/btrfs/*.[hc] says 50k lines of text. Call it 20 flying monkey years of coding.
  - tesseract 17y ago
    Much of the lower levels of Mac OS X (including the compiler, which at the moment is gcc, although Apple is moving toward LLVM/clang...) is GPL. CUPS, which is now managed and primarily maintained by Apple, is GPL.
    - buster 17y ago
      i'd say "much" is exaggerated. More like "in a few places where they couldn't rip off MIT/BSD licensed code". It's a shame that Apples success i based on a lot open source code but they give so little back to the community.
      - durin42 17y ago
        Give so little back? Really? libdispatch was something purely in-house. They're giving it away. Same for launchd, although other groups inexplicably feel a need to recreate it from scratch. They're employing major contributors to LLVM/clang and having them work fulltime on those projects. CalendarServer is a fantastic CalDav server, which they're giving away. Don't say they give "so little" back to the community. While I may really hate what's going on with ZFS right now, your statement wasn't really fair to them.
        buster 17y ago
        Probably harsh, but nevertheless my point of view. When i look at http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=microsoft+vs.+apple+vs+google+vs+intel http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=microsoft+vs.+apple+vs+... and compare apples size in terms of employees, revenue... it's a _huge_ company with lots of money. Now i look at what it does in the open source world... From my perspective a lot of what i see on macs today has it's origins in the open source world and apple wouldn't be where it is today with open source (webkit came from khtml, mac os x kernel partly from freebsd, calendar server is based on twisted, afaik). Now you tell me that the company that tries to lock it's customers in their ecosystem with a lot of proprietary software&hardware (hello quicktime, hello itunes), that it's particularly open source friendly? It sure as hell is not. I could nearly bet that MS does more open source then apple. If it's not already the case, apple is heading in that direction.
dtf 17y ago
Me too. Ted Ts'o (ext4's maintainer) has said the btrfs is the future.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  Just to make sure: is the guy happily married? ;-)
  - cpach 17y ago
    I guess this was a reference to Hans Reiser killing his wife. Do you really think domestic violence is a laughing matter?
    - dkarl 17y ago
      Everything's a laughing matter if it happens to you, so by the Golden Rule it should be a laughing matter if it happens to someone else.

arete 17y ago

How about checksums to detect corruption on those fragile spinning disks you're picking up and carrying around the room? Or quick and efficient snapshots, scheduled frequently? This is seriously disappointing, if not surprising.

petsos 17y ago
Another useful laptop feature is the option to use duplicate blocks as a poor man's RAID (zfs set copies option). Could be used for system files or other critical data.

rbanffy 17y ago

"anyone got a good use case for laptop use?" Their laptops are gorgeus. OK... The OS is not my favorite. It's currently a tie with OpenSolaris for me (nicer GUI on one, package management on the other), but both bot are behind Jaunty (and probably will be behind Karmic)

dschobel 17y ago
I believe OP was speaking about the filesystem specifically.

rbanffy 17y ago

I would not call it out of reach. You can download OpenSolaris and use it. The Gnome desktop is a bit older than Ubuntu or Fedora, but, still, it's usable.

bayareaguy 17y ago

anyone got a good use case for laptop use? I may be in the minority but I would have liked the opportunity to use the same filesystem on my OSX laptop that I do on my database server.