7 ms·

> Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. No, they can code in Linux using

> Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. No, they can code in Linux using Vim if they want.

xanadohnt 12y ago
Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Win10 is practically free or totally free (if upgrading from a valid Win8).
- omt66 12y ago
  Good points. Visual Studio community edition is free for the individual developers. It is a full-featured IDE, same edition like VS Professional. In a non-enterprise organization, up to 5 developers can use the VS, of course after that they will start charging. IMO: Great for startups and indies.
- aikah 12y ago
  well,still waiting for SQL Server (pro) to follow that trend... I guess I'll wait a long time.
  - wvenable 12y ago
    SQL Server Express is pretty useful on it's own. The only limit is the database size be under 10GB. That's a pretty high limit for a lot of applications.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    Yeah. Even having a proper shared nothing cluster requires the Enterprise Edition, at like $12k a core. Just to get a slick version of what you can do with DRBD for free.
- mrpippy 12y ago
  > Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Not exactly. Anyone inside an "enterprise organization" (according to Microsoft's arbitrary definition) is even worse off than before, because Microsoft won't be releasing the Express editions any more. From http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community... Here’s how individual developers can use Visual Studio Community: - Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps. Here’s how Visual Studio Community can be used in organizations: - An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects. - For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to 5 users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1 Million US Dollars in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above.
  - ctvo 12y ago
    Yes, because those organizations on the MS stack were all running the Express edition and didn't have MSDN licenses, right?
  - nightski 12y ago
    If you have > $1M in revenue or > 250 PCs I hope you can afford a $99 VS upgrade license...
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Not exactly. Anyone inside an "enterprise organization" (according to Microsoft's arbitrary definition) is even worse off than before, because Microsoft won't be releasing the Express editions any more. I doubt that there were ever significant numbers of developers in enterprise organizations using Express Editions anyway. If you are doing serious business, the cost of paid licenses (and MSDN subscriptions) is generally justified if you are going to be using MS technologies.
pmontra 12y ago
I never tried C# but I did code in Java with vim and emacs. Not a nice experience. Java more or less requires an IDE. I assumed C# would be the same but I could have assumed too much.
- Rapzid 12y ago
  To my knowledge C#/.NET has far superior language tooling included in the box with Roslyn. They also mention some sort of Omnisharp support.
- ygra 12y ago
  The most annoying thing in Java without an IDE (and a source-control plugin for that IDE) is moving types from one package to another and renaming types. Due to the requirement that the directory hierarchy mirrors the package structure and that every public class is contained in a file with the same name this can be a bit annoying at times. Otherwise C# is much more concise for many things but apart from that there isn't much difference, at least for me.
- pmelendez 12y ago
  I have worked on C# with vim and mono, and I can tell you that it is a lot easier than Java on the command line (which I have done too)
brz 12y ago
They can also walk on broken glass with bare feet.
- ossreality 12y ago
  This is pretty ignorant. Omnisharp + vim/emacs + ASP.NET 5 is a very clearly supported scenario by the ASP.NET team. In fact, you'll find David Fowler advocating for emacs and Omnisharp's good-ness. But yay for pithiness, amiright
- MoOmer 12y ago
  Which, to me, says something about the language and it's tooling. I've only used C# minimally, but it's fanbase size continues to amaze me.
- DigitalJack 12y ago
  I like vim and make extensive use of it daily, but I found your comment hilarious. I'm going to have to steal that retort.

> Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. No, they can code in Linux using Vim if they want.

xanadohnt 12y ago

Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Win10 is practically free or totally free (if upgrading from a valid Win8).

omt66 12y ago
Good points. Visual Studio community edition is free for the individual developers. It is a full-featured IDE, same edition like VS Professional. In a non-enterprise organization, up to 5 developers can use the VS, of course after that they will start charging. IMO: Great for startups and indies.
aikah 12y ago
well,still waiting for SQL Server (pro) to follow that trend... I guess I'll wait a long time.
- wvenable 12y ago
  SQL Server Express is pretty useful on it's own. The only limit is the database size be under 10GB. That's a pretty high limit for a lot of applications.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Yeah. Even having a proper shared nothing cluster requires the Enterprise Edition, at like $12k a core. Just to get a slick version of what you can do with DRBD for free.
mrpippy 12y ago
> Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Not exactly. Anyone inside an "enterprise organization" (according to Microsoft's arbitrary definition) is even worse off than before, because Microsoft won't be releasing the Express editions any more. From http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs http://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community... Here’s how individual developers can use Visual Studio Community: - Any individual developer can use Visual Studio Community to create their own free or paid apps. Here’s how Visual Studio Community can be used in organizations: - An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects. - For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to 5 users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or > $1 Million US Dollars in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above.
- ctvo 12y ago
  Yes, because those organizations on the MS stack were all running the Express edition and didn't have MSDN licenses, right?
- nightski 12y ago
  If you have > $1M in revenue or > 250 PCs I hope you can afford a $99 VS upgrade license...
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Not exactly. Anyone inside an "enterprise organization" (according to Microsoft's arbitrary definition) is even worse off than before, because Microsoft won't be releasing the Express editions any more. I doubt that there were ever significant numbers of developers in enterprise organizations using Express Editions anyway. If you are doing serious business, the cost of paid licenses (and MSDN subscriptions) is generally justified if you are going to be using MS technologies.

pmontra 12y ago

I never tried C# but I did code in Java with vim and emacs. Not a nice experience. Java more or less requires an IDE. I assumed C# would be the same but I could have assumed too much.

Rapzid 12y ago
To my knowledge C#/.NET has far superior language tooling included in the box with Roslyn. They also mention some sort of Omnisharp support.
ygra 12y ago
The most annoying thing in Java without an IDE (and a source-control plugin for that IDE) is moving types from one package to another and renaming types. Due to the requirement that the directory hierarchy mirrors the package structure and that every public class is contained in a file with the same name this can be a bit annoying at times. Otherwise C# is much more concise for many things but apart from that there isn't much difference, at least for me.
pmelendez 12y ago
I have worked on C# with vim and mono, and I can tell you that it is a lot easier than Java on the command line (which I have done too)

brz 12y ago

They can also walk on broken glass with bare feet.

ossreality 12y ago
This is pretty ignorant. Omnisharp + vim/emacs + ASP.NET 5 is a very clearly supported scenario by the ASP.NET team. In fact, you'll find David Fowler advocating for emacs and Omnisharp's good-ness. But yay for pithiness, amiright
MoOmer 12y ago
Which, to me, says something about the language and it's tooling. I've only used C# minimally, but it's fanbase size continues to amaze me.
DigitalJack 12y ago
I like vim and make extensive use of it daily, but I found your comment hilarious. I'm going to have to steal that retort.