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Moderately off topic question for everyone who could whip up a superior solution over lunch with two Arduinos and a Raspberry Pi ;-) Where does one go (as a so

Moderately off topic question for everyone who could whip up a superior solution over lunch with two Arduinos and a Raspberry Pi ;-) Where does one go (as a somewhat technical non-Wifi expert) to get guidance on positioning, configuring, naming just two wifi routers for a 700 square foot apartment? (E.g. should I have both on the same channel? Should I have the same or different SSIDs?)

gambiting 12y ago
Same SSIDs, same passwords, different channels. All your devices will then connect to the device with the strongest signal. I usually pick the channels for my routers manually, leaving them all in auto-mode results in a huge deathmatch and all 5 routers in my house changing channels every 10 minutes because somehow their randomized algorithms always pick the same ones. You can only pick the same channels if you are absolutely, 100% certain that there is no signal overlap.
- lunixbochs 12y ago
  Channel overlap isn't really an issue in 5GHz mode with DFS [1]. This also isn't completely accurate for 2.4GHz mode unless you will have high-bandwidth clients connected to multiple routers simultaneously. WiFi is cooperative by design, so it's possible to have 20-30 routers broadcasting networks in the same room on the same channel and a single client connecting to any single one of them at mostly full bandwidth. You can run into the Hidden Node Problem [2] if you have high bandwidth wireless users spread out and connected to multiple routers. With just two routers and a single laptop moving around an apartment, your biggest problem for signal (on a 2.4GHz network) will be the neighboring apartments and not the unused router, as it is just broadcasting beacon frames about every hundred milliseconds and not doing much else. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_allocation_schemes#DCA_and_DFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_allocation_schemes#DCA_... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_node_problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_node_problem
lunixbochs 12y ago
You shouldn't need two routers in normal apartment conditions. Unless your walls are filled with water or contain a tuned copper mesh, you should probably just spend more on your main router, make sure to use 5GHz, and run wires if that doesn't work. Unlike 2.4GHz with 1-3 non-overlapping channels available (depending on your chosen bandwidth), the 5GHz band has 21 non-overlapping channels. You're pretty much guaranteed to be fighting with several neighboring wifi networks in an apartment (and you're more likely to get the hidden node problem), so that's pretty much worst case for 2.4GHz. If you have a legacy requirement for 2.4GHz, try a single ASUS RT-N66U before installing two routers. I've seen it effortlessly cover several-thousand-square-foot areas from the back room or basement. I was able to get reasonable signal from one in a lobby through four vertical floors (and through many other active wireless networks). If you want AC / have AC-capable devices: get an AirPort Extreme if you use Apple hardware, or any of the ASUS AC (like the AC66U) routers otherwise. Be forewarned: many AC routers on the market combine their maximum 5GHz N speed and 5GHz AC speed for their "total capable speed", for example "N600 + AC1800 = AC2400!" [1] (it is a very nice router, but you're just about as well off in an apartment with an AC66U). Also, if you get an ASUS router, make sure to replace the default firmware with Tomato Shibby or asuswrt-rmerlin as the stock software has a bad habit of sprouting moderate to critical security vulns (ASUS isn't special here. Many of the consumer router vendors have this problem.). [1] http://www.asus.com/us/News/hE5SJg3y7bbIBIGO http://www.asus.com/us/News/hE5SJg3y7bbIBIGO
- web007 12y ago
  You just enumerated their main selling points: "run wires if that doesn't work" and "make sure to replace the default firmware". I don't think this product is the right one for you, but it is for someone my parents' age or for my non-technical peers. If my parents / in-laws have WiFi trouble I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that they get a couple of these.
  - lunixbochs 12y ago
    My post was specifically trying to address his questions about wifi deployment in a 700sqft apartment. "run wires if that doesn't work": If you can't get decent wifi signal through an entire 700sqft apartment (where you'll probably have at most 1-2 walls between your router and computer at any point in time), you have bigger problems that a mesh network might not solve. At this point, you probably have too many neighboring wireless networks or bad walls, and mesh networks don't solve either of these. "make sure to replace the default firmware": My primary recommendation is Apple hardware, which is fine on default firmware. I also mentioned ASUS because some people actively don't want Apple hardware, but I'd venture those people are also more likely to be happier to install their own firmware/OS than the average.
FireBeyond 12y ago
Have them on the same SSID. Have the 5GHz channel on a separate SSID. Some devices (Apple seems to be bad at this) will end up having an "affinity" to the lower speed 2.4GHz because of signal strength (often only trivially different, and usually with more interference). I have "My Home SSID" and "My Home SSID 5GHz", and set the 5GHz with a higher connection priority and it works well - only if the 5GHz noticeably deteriorates does it switch down (and devices that are not 5GHz get more access to the 2.4GHz network).

gambiting 12y ago

Same SSIDs, same passwords, different channels. All your devices will then connect to the device with the strongest signal. I usually pick the channels for my routers manually, leaving them all in auto-mode results in a huge deathmatch and all 5 routers in my house changing channels every 10 minutes because somehow their randomized algorithms always pick the same ones. You can only pick the same channels if you are absolutely, 100% certain that there is no signal overlap.

lunixbochs 12y ago
Channel overlap isn't really an issue in 5GHz mode with DFS [1]. This also isn't completely accurate for 2.4GHz mode unless you will have high-bandwidth clients connected to multiple routers simultaneously. WiFi is cooperative by design, so it's possible to have 20-30 routers broadcasting networks in the same room on the same channel and a single client connecting to any single one of them at mostly full bandwidth. You can run into the Hidden Node Problem [2] if you have high bandwidth wireless users spread out and connected to multiple routers. With just two routers and a single laptop moving around an apartment, your biggest problem for signal (on a 2.4GHz network) will be the neighboring apartments and not the unused router, as it is just broadcasting beacon frames about every hundred milliseconds and not doing much else. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_allocation_schemes#DCA_and_DFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_allocation_schemes#DCA_... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_node_problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_node_problem

lunixbochs 12y ago

You shouldn't need two routers in normal apartment conditions. Unless your walls are filled with water or contain a tuned copper mesh, you should probably just spend more on your main router, make sure to use 5GHz, and run wires if that doesn't work. Unlike 2.4GHz with 1-3 non-overlapping channels available (depending on your chosen bandwidth), the 5GHz band has 21 non-overlapping channels. You're pretty much guaranteed to be fighting with several neighboring wifi networks in an apartment (and you're more likely to get the hidden node problem), so that's pretty much worst case for 2.4GHz. If you have a legacy requirement for 2.4GHz, try a single ASUS RT-N66U before installing two routers. I've seen it effortlessly cover several-thousand-square-foot areas from the back room or basement. I was able to get reasonable signal from one in a lobby through four vertical floors (and through many other active wireless networks). If you want AC / have AC-capable devices: get an AirPort Extreme if you use Apple hardware, or any of the ASUS AC (like the AC66U) routers otherwise. Be forewarned: many AC routers on the market combine their maximum 5GHz N speed and 5GHz AC speed for their "total capable speed", for example "N600 + AC1800 = AC2400!" [1] (it is a very nice router, but you're just about as well off in an apartment with an AC66U). Also, if you get an ASUS router, make sure to replace the default firmware with Tomato Shibby or asuswrt-rmerlin as the stock software has a bad habit of sprouting moderate to critical security vulns (ASUS isn't special here. Many of the consumer router vendors have this problem.). [1] http://www.asus.com/us/News/hE5SJg3y7bbIBIGO http://www.asus.com/us/News/hE5SJg3y7bbIBIGO

web007 12y ago
You just enumerated their main selling points: "run wires if that doesn't work" and "make sure to replace the default firmware". I don't think this product is the right one for you, but it is for someone my parents' age or for my non-technical peers. If my parents / in-laws have WiFi trouble I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that they get a couple of these.
- lunixbochs 12y ago
  My post was specifically trying to address his questions about wifi deployment in a 700sqft apartment. "run wires if that doesn't work": If you can't get decent wifi signal through an entire 700sqft apartment (where you'll probably have at most 1-2 walls between your router and computer at any point in time), you have bigger problems that a mesh network might not solve. At this point, you probably have too many neighboring wireless networks or bad walls, and mesh networks don't solve either of these. "make sure to replace the default firmware": My primary recommendation is Apple hardware, which is fine on default firmware. I also mentioned ASUS because some people actively don't want Apple hardware, but I'd venture those people are also more likely to be happier to install their own firmware/OS than the average.

FireBeyond 12y ago

Have them on the same SSID. Have the 5GHz channel on a separate SSID. Some devices (Apple seems to be bad at this) will end up having an "affinity" to the lower speed 2.4GHz because of signal strength (often only trivially different, and usually with more interference). I have "My Home SSID" and "My Home SSID 5GHz", and set the 5GHz with a higher connection priority and it works well - only if the 5GHz noticeably deteriorates does it switch down (and devices that are not 5GHz get more access to the 2.4GHz network).