4 ms·

I have no expertise here, but here's my understanding: 1) Yes, especially if you've worked for some big name, non-government tech companies. 2) Absolutely not

I have no expertise here, but here's my understanding: 1) Yes, especially if you've worked for some big name, non-government tech companies. 2) Absolutely not. The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That's the real problem. The government desperately needs world class software engineers, but the private sector can effectively buy them all away. Who would try and fix the busted old immigration system when Facebook or Google will pay you literally four times more money to write way more fun stuff with modern technology, world class perks, and job security that doesn't depend on the next election cycle. Joining these guys is a sacrifice. It's a service to the country. It's work that literally changes and even saves lives, but it's miserable, boring work, with little or no personal reward.

johngd 12y ago
Re #1: Correct. Re #2: Unless you are a contractor. I was shocked to learn how much the about-to-retire ~20-30 year guys were making compared to my mid/senior level long-term contractor position was paying.
ipsin 12y ago
That's what I was afraid of. The thing is, the government seems to have been happy enough in the past to throw hundreds of millions of dollars to contractors, who could then parcel it out to employees and bank the rest. I'm all for cutting out the middleman in that case, but I think the government needs to determine the price point at which they actually get the talent they need.
- catherinedevlin 12y ago
  USDS got Alex Gaynor. Freaking Alex Gaynor, l'enfant terrible of the Python universe. They're definitely getting talent.
nadams 12y ago
> The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That all depends. Many comp sci students are brainwashed to think that if a salary isn't at least 100k then it's not worth their time. The fact is that it depends on location and cost of living. For example - if you get hired to work for Google in their HQ in CA then you are guaranteed to get at least 100k salary. However, 90% of that will go towards food/rent (you will most likely rent as houses cost up in the millions...) - which making $60k in a smaller suburb area (where housing is in the affordable $50-$200k range) would arguably be the same net income as if you were working at Google. I will say that you will earn more in the private sector - but I wouldn't use miserable to describe government salaries (more like underpaid). When I worked for the man it was defiantly an interesting experience but it was a very relaxed environment/startupy feeling.
- tymekpavel 12y ago
  90%? If you're willing to commute from Redwood City (15min CalTrain ride to MV, 35 minute CalTrain tride to SF), you'll be paying $1500-2000/mo for a 1br-2br/1ba. That comes to 24% of salary, and you'd be hard-pressed to spend more than another 6% on food.
  - vonmoltke 12y ago
    "Hard pressed" to spend more than $17/day on food?
    - chaqke 12y ago
      easily pressed to spend more than $17/day on food if you go out, but many tech jobs provide at least a meal (so you can work more)
  - nadams 12y ago
    Rent alone would come out to about 50% of your take home pay[1] (estimated of course - you would probably get less depending on benefits). Assuming if you hunted you might be able to rent for $1500, but from zillow[2] the rent appears to be from $2-4k+. If you showed me an apartment for $1.5k and the average is $2k I would want to know what is wrong with it. In my suburban area - I could get a mortgage for a $100k house with at least 2br for about $500/month. Of course people at Google probably don't get paid exactly $100k but keeping in mind a good sized chunk of that is just going toward living there. [1] - http://www.calculator.net/take-home-pay-calculator.html?cannualincome=100000&cpayfrequency=Bi-weekly&cfilestatus=Single&callowance=2&cdeduction=500&cstatetax=9.3&ccitytax=0&cadditionat1=no&printit=0&x=58&y=6 http://www.calculator.net/take-home-pay-calculator.html?cann... [2] - http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/Redwood-City-CA/house,condo,apartment,duplex,townhouse_type/82960648_zpid/20128_rid/days_sort/37.608656,-122.033558,37.407665,-122.394047_rect/11_zm/?view=map http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/Redwood-City-CA/house,c...
    - chaqke 12y ago
      Some easy numbers: 1k/month is ~12k/year, which is ~15-18k of pre-tax salary. To re-emphasize, 1k/month in lower rent is worth 15-18k of salary. I have friends paying more than $2k/month more than me, which is around a negative 40k raise (I live in San Francisco, but share). It's very easy for humans to misinterpret recurring costs.
adelevie 12y ago
I'm on a team working on immigration at 18F. Not sure why you assume it's miserable. Anyways, we're using a modern Rails/Postgres/Elasticsearch stack and the work is incredibly rewarding and motivating. Here's a nice description: > 18F is working with a number of different federal departments. One of the biggest projects it has taken on is designing the website for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. That's the agency that processes applications from people hoping to become citizens and those covered under the president's executive actions who hope to obtain work permits. Godbout says the concept for the USCIS website is to make a virtual welcoming statement. > He thinks of it as an "online Statue of Liberty. This idea of how do we present ourselves to people coming to America. Our digital process should be that beautiful, too." source: http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2015/01/28/382178574/remaking-the-u-s-governments-online-image-one-website-at-a-time http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2015/01/28/382178...
Bahamut 12y ago
The salary is not as good as you can get elsewhere, but it's pretty good compared to most careers still. There is also the additional benefits of the pension system if you are directly under the federal government and liberal days off/remote work when snow hits (the federal government has shut down with 0" of snow in the past in anticipation of snowstorms, and sometimes even with 1" of snow). On the contracting side you can make a lot of money though - it is not unheard of for developers to make over $150k, and combined with the cost of living of the region, one can live pretty comfortably. Miserable, boring work is all in the eye of the beholder - there is a lot of work that many here on HN do that some others would consider boring, even in the startup world. Even companies such as Facebook or Google also have boring work.

johngd 12y ago

Re #1: Correct. Re #2: Unless you are a contractor. I was shocked to learn how much the about-to-retire ~20-30 year guys were making compared to my mid/senior level long-term contractor position was paying.

ipsin 12y ago

That's what I was afraid of. The thing is, the government seems to have been happy enough in the past to throw hundreds of millions of dollars to contractors, who could then parcel it out to employees and bank the rest. I'm all for cutting out the middleman in that case, but I think the government needs to determine the price point at which they actually get the talent they need.

catherinedevlin 12y ago
USDS got Alex Gaynor. Freaking Alex Gaynor, l'enfant terrible of the Python universe. They're definitely getting talent.

nadams 12y ago

> The salary is MISERABLE compared to what you could get in the private sector. That all depends. Many comp sci students are brainwashed to think that if a salary isn't at least 100k then it's not worth their time. The fact is that it depends on location and cost of living. For example - if you get hired to work for Google in their HQ in CA then you are guaranteed to get at least 100k salary. However, 90% of that will go towards food/rent (you will most likely rent as houses cost up in the millions...) - which making $60k in a smaller suburb area (where housing is in the affordable $50-$200k range) would arguably be the same net income as if you were working at Google. I will say that you will earn more in the private sector - but I wouldn't use miserable to describe government salaries (more like underpaid). When I worked for the man it was defiantly an interesting experience but it was a very relaxed environment/startupy feeling.

tymekpavel 12y ago
90%? If you're willing to commute from Redwood City (15min CalTrain ride to MV, 35 minute CalTrain tride to SF), you'll be paying $1500-2000/mo for a 1br-2br/1ba. That comes to 24% of salary, and you'd be hard-pressed to spend more than another 6% on food.
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  "Hard pressed" to spend more than $17/day on food?
  - chaqke 12y ago
    easily pressed to spend more than $17/day on food if you go out, but many tech jobs provide at least a meal (so you can work more)
- nadams 12y ago
  Rent alone would come out to about 50% of your take home pay[1] (estimated of course - you would probably get less depending on benefits). Assuming if you hunted you might be able to rent for $1500, but from zillow[2] the rent appears to be from $2-4k+. If you showed me an apartment for $1.5k and the average is $2k I would want to know what is wrong with it. In my suburban area - I could get a mortgage for a $100k house with at least 2br for about $500/month. Of course people at Google probably don't get paid exactly $100k but keeping in mind a good sized chunk of that is just going toward living there. [1] - http://www.calculator.net/take-home-pay-calculator.html?cannualincome=100000&cpayfrequency=Bi-weekly&cfilestatus=Single&callowance=2&cdeduction=500&cstatetax=9.3&ccitytax=0&cadditionat1=no&printit=0&x=58&y=6 http://www.calculator.net/take-home-pay-calculator.html?cann... [2] - http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/Redwood-City-CA/house,condo,apartment,duplex,townhouse_type/82960648_zpid/20128_rid/days_sort/37.608656,-122.033558,37.407665,-122.394047_rect/11_zm/?view=map http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/Redwood-City-CA/house,c...
  - chaqke 12y ago
    Some easy numbers: 1k/month is ~12k/year, which is ~15-18k of pre-tax salary. To re-emphasize, 1k/month in lower rent is worth 15-18k of salary. I have friends paying more than $2k/month more than me, which is around a negative 40k raise (I live in San Francisco, but share). It's very easy for humans to misinterpret recurring costs.

adelevie 12y ago

I'm on a team working on immigration at 18F. Not sure why you assume it's miserable. Anyways, we're using a modern Rails/Postgres/Elasticsearch stack and the work is incredibly rewarding and motivating. Here's a nice description: > 18F is working with a number of different federal departments. One of the biggest projects it has taken on is designing the website for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. That's the agency that processes applications from people hoping to become citizens and those covered under the president's executive actions who hope to obtain work permits. Godbout says the concept for the USCIS website is to make a virtual welcoming statement. > He thinks of it as an "online Statue of Liberty. This idea of how do we present ourselves to people coming to America. Our digital process should be that beautiful, too." source: http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2015/01/28/382178574/remaking-the-u-s-governments-online-image-one-website-at-a-time http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2015/01/28/382178...

Bahamut 12y ago

The salary is not as good as you can get elsewhere, but it's pretty good compared to most careers still. There is also the additional benefits of the pension system if you are directly under the federal government and liberal days off/remote work when snow hits (the federal government has shut down with 0" of snow in the past in anticipation of snowstorms, and sometimes even with 1" of snow). On the contracting side you can make a lot of money though - it is not unheard of for developers to make over $150k, and combined with the cost of living of the region, one can live pretty comfortably. Miserable, boring work is all in the eye of the beholder - there is a lot of work that many here on HN do that some others would consider boring, even in the startup world. Even companies such as Facebook or Google also have boring work.