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I think individuals who are living paycheck to paycheck as Uber contractors probably aren't able to respond to the possibility that their job will be replaced b

I think individuals who are living paycheck to paycheck as Uber contractors probably aren't able to respond to the possibility that their job will be replaced by automation. Very few people are able to prepare for that kind of thing, actually, even if the warning is in the foreseeable future. If they quit, what should they do to pay the bills in the mean time?

titanomachy 12y ago
Uber's design inherently makes any kind of collective bargaining almost impossible. As long as money can be made by being an Uber contractor, people will do it -- right up to the moment that Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. There is no picket line to patrol here, no way that the drivers can meaningfully coordinate with one another. Dispatch communicates with drivers, and vice versa, but there is no possibility of lateral communication between drivers. It's pure, emotionless capitalism. Labour is now a commodity like any other. Depending who you ask, this is either the harbinger of a widening wage gap and the poverty that accompanies it, or a long-overdue development which paves the way for optimum efficiency.
- marcell 12y ago
  I have an idea for unionizing Uber drivers via a smartphone app. It would work around the problem you mentioned, which is that Uber can quickly replace workers who strike for 1 week or more at a time. Basically, do "flash strikes" for 30 minutes at at time. It would work like this: Uber drivers install an app to join the union, and when the union decides to "strike", it sends a message to all drivers in the union. The drivers cancel all rides for some short period of time, say, 30 minutes, and then they resume driving like normal. This driver outage would be disruptive to Uber in terms of user experience, but it wouldn't be long enough to replace the striking workers.
  - titanomachy 12y ago
    Part of the reason unions work is because they sign agreements with employers that prevent them from hiring from outside the union to fill jobs during a strike. I can't imagine a scenario in which Uber enters such an agreement. Even if a union exists, Uber is free to hire non-union members and pay them as much as necessary to get them to work during a strike. In the long run, economics wins out and Uber ends up paying the minimum that enough people are willing to work for, which is exactly what they were doing anyway.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Then the people who don't join the union (or join but don't follow the instructions) get all the rides during those 30 minutes, and everybody who canceled all their rides during the strike gets kicked out of Uber, and word quickly spreads that going on strike is a good way to instantly lose your livelihood. You'd have to somehow get 100% penetration, not only among current Uber drivers but among all potential Uber drivers in the area, before doing anything. Doesn't sound feasible, especially since anyone who declines to participate will make a killing.
  - audeyisaacs 12y ago
    What would they be trying to achieve by striking? Getting Uber to stop pursuing self-driving cars? It's pointless, because someone at some point will launch the self-driving version of Uber. Also, Surge Pricing would make it difficult to get everyone to hold out for the strike.
  - ant6n 12y ago
    Of course uber knows what other apps you have installed.
- walterbell 12y ago
  > no way that the drivers can meaningfully coordinate with one another Except that 100% of drivers have a smartphone on a public network.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Well, they could just switch to working for Lyft instead of a company that is actively trying to automate their jobs away, if for no other reason than to put some upward pressure on Uber's driver payout percentage.

titanomachy 12y ago

Uber's design inherently makes any kind of collective bargaining almost impossible. As long as money can be made by being an Uber contractor, people will do it -- right up to the moment that Uber replaces them all with self-driving cars. There is no picket line to patrol here, no way that the drivers can meaningfully coordinate with one another. Dispatch communicates with drivers, and vice versa, but there is no possibility of lateral communication between drivers. It's pure, emotionless capitalism. Labour is now a commodity like any other. Depending who you ask, this is either the harbinger of a widening wage gap and the poverty that accompanies it, or a long-overdue development which paves the way for optimum efficiency.

marcell 12y ago
I have an idea for unionizing Uber drivers via a smartphone app. It would work around the problem you mentioned, which is that Uber can quickly replace workers who strike for 1 week or more at a time. Basically, do "flash strikes" for 30 minutes at at time. It would work like this: Uber drivers install an app to join the union, and when the union decides to "strike", it sends a message to all drivers in the union. The drivers cancel all rides for some short period of time, say, 30 minutes, and then they resume driving like normal. This driver outage would be disruptive to Uber in terms of user experience, but it wouldn't be long enough to replace the striking workers.
- titanomachy 12y ago
  Part of the reason unions work is because they sign agreements with employers that prevent them from hiring from outside the union to fill jobs during a strike. I can't imagine a scenario in which Uber enters such an agreement. Even if a union exists, Uber is free to hire non-union members and pay them as much as necessary to get them to work during a strike. In the long run, economics wins out and Uber ends up paying the minimum that enough people are willing to work for, which is exactly what they were doing anyway.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Then the people who don't join the union (or join but don't follow the instructions) get all the rides during those 30 minutes, and everybody who canceled all their rides during the strike gets kicked out of Uber, and word quickly spreads that going on strike is a good way to instantly lose your livelihood. You'd have to somehow get 100% penetration, not only among current Uber drivers but among all potential Uber drivers in the area, before doing anything. Doesn't sound feasible, especially since anyone who declines to participate will make a killing.
- audeyisaacs 12y ago
  What would they be trying to achieve by striking? Getting Uber to stop pursuing self-driving cars? It's pointless, because someone at some point will launch the self-driving version of Uber. Also, Surge Pricing would make it difficult to get everyone to hold out for the strike.
- ant6n 12y ago
  Of course uber knows what other apps you have installed.
walterbell 12y ago
> no way that the drivers can meaningfully coordinate with one another Except that 100% of drivers have a smartphone on a public network.

anigbrowl 12y ago

Well, they could just switch to working for Lyft instead of a company that is actively trying to automate their jobs away, if for no other reason than to put some upward pressure on Uber's driver payout percentage.