4 ms·

The gender gap in certain sectors is a problem, but this is also a problem. I have no doubt that strong feminists don't want to see boys (even white ones) doing

The gender gap in certain sectors is a problem, but this is also a problem. I have no doubt that strong feminists don't want to see boys (even white ones) doing worse as a whole from a young age.

golemotron 12y ago
This is more of a problem than the gender gap. The gender gap is largely due to differences in interests. You'll see the same sort of gap in nursing, auto repair, primary education, construction and number of other occupations. If it's down to interests it's not clear it will ever be solved completely. Maybe that's okay.
- jacalata 12y ago
  Why is this gap more of a problem? Maybe boys just aren't interested in math, the same way they are naturally not interested in nursing.
  - golemotron 12y ago
    That hasn't been the case historically. It's good to ask what has changed.
  - jamestnz 12y ago
    One difference that seems relevant is that math is a general discipline/skillset that has applicability to a variety of career paths and industry sectors, and also can be a base/prerequisite requirement when pursuing further education in fields that don't necessarily seem very "mathy". In other words, one often doesn't necessarily study math to become a professional mathematician, but as a means to another end, such as providing a grounding to enable meaningful study in another area (a psychology degree requiring study of statistics would be one example). Nursing, on the other hand, is in itself a vocation. One studies nursing, presumably, to become a nurse, and not usually as a means to some other end. Therefore, a lack of boys' interest in math would be potentially different from a lack of boys' interest in nursing, in that innumeracy (just like illiteracy) tends to limit individual outcomes much more severely than lack of interest in a particular vocational path such as nursing.
- unknownian 12y ago
  The gender gap is mostly due to different interests, but some of it does involve women feeling unsafe in certain industries (ask them, not me). The other thing is that the pay gap also involves different personal choices, but some of it involves things that should be improved, such as the expectation of maternity leave, as well as women not feeling as strongly about negotiating higher pay, as many men do. These are things I feel should be improved over time. If this seems radical, then I see things a bit differently. I think we can discuss this civilly though, if need be!
  - golemotron 12y ago
    I agree that those things should be and will be improved over time, but as long as the expectation is close to 50% there will be problems. I suspect that feeling unsafe in an industry is a direct side effect of the ratio of men to women and it will persist as long as personal choices are different. What no one will admit is that these differences in preference may be matters of nature as well as nurture. Even if they aren't, these things change very slowly. I don't expect to see men equally represented in nursing, social work, or primary education at any point in the future except through a quota system.

The gender gap in certain sectors is a problem, but this is also a problem. I have no doubt that strong feminists don't want to see boys (even white ones) doing worse as a whole from a young age.

golemotron 12y ago

This is more of a problem than the gender gap. The gender gap is largely due to differences in interests. You'll see the same sort of gap in nursing, auto repair, primary education, construction and number of other occupations. If it's down to interests it's not clear it will ever be solved completely. Maybe that's okay.

jacalata 12y ago
Why is this gap more of a problem? Maybe boys just aren't interested in math, the same way they are naturally not interested in nursing.
- golemotron 12y ago
  That hasn't been the case historically. It's good to ask what has changed.
- jamestnz 12y ago
  One difference that seems relevant is that math is a general discipline/skillset that has applicability to a variety of career paths and industry sectors, and also can be a base/prerequisite requirement when pursuing further education in fields that don't necessarily seem very "mathy". In other words, one often doesn't necessarily study math to become a professional mathematician, but as a means to another end, such as providing a grounding to enable meaningful study in another area (a psychology degree requiring study of statistics would be one example). Nursing, on the other hand, is in itself a vocation. One studies nursing, presumably, to become a nurse, and not usually as a means to some other end. Therefore, a lack of boys' interest in math would be potentially different from a lack of boys' interest in nursing, in that innumeracy (just like illiteracy) tends to limit individual outcomes much more severely than lack of interest in a particular vocational path such as nursing.
unknownian 12y ago
The gender gap is mostly due to different interests, but some of it does involve women feeling unsafe in certain industries (ask them, not me). The other thing is that the pay gap also involves different personal choices, but some of it involves things that should be improved, such as the expectation of maternity leave, as well as women not feeling as strongly about negotiating higher pay, as many men do. These are things I feel should be improved over time. If this seems radical, then I see things a bit differently. I think we can discuss this civilly though, if need be!
- golemotron 12y ago
  I agree that those things should be and will be improved over time, but as long as the expectation is close to 50% there will be problems. I suspect that feeling unsafe in an industry is a direct side effect of the ratio of men to women and it will persist as long as personal choices are different. What no one will admit is that these differences in preference may be matters of nature as well as nurture. Even if they aren't, these things change very slowly. I don't expect to see men equally represented in nursing, social work, or primary education at any point in the future except through a quota system.