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It would be interesting to mandate that all Mac Apps be written in Javascript so users could modify them. However this seems ambitious. Even mandating that al

It would be interesting to mandate that all Mac Apps be written in Javascript so users could modify them. However this seems ambitious. Even mandating that all apps be scriptable seems to be a bridge too far. Note that Javascript is supported in addition to AppleScript as a user level scripting language. Much of the Mac OS is in fact open source -- see Darwin and other projects. However having the code for the OS available -- or having XCode installed -- does nothing for user programmability. This comment is a good example of why it doesn't work for us developers to see ourselves as typical users.

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Apple still supports Widgets, which are canned JavaScript built to run in a special Dashboard app. (Does anyone still develop Widgets?) But this still misses the point about HyperCard, which was that Hypercard was its own toolchain. To get started with it, you didn't have to: Install a separate editor Learn a separate editor Install a build system Learn how to build a project Learn how to share code Deal with dependencies It's the no-separate-toolchain feature that made HyperCard so accessible, and which was influenced by SmallTalk. Modern programming is a nightmare in comparison - including modern app programming. Just because Apple uses Objective-C doesn't mean it's approaching app development in a SmallTalk-like way. Getting an app out of Xcode and into the store is a horror story of provisioning profiles, debug vs production builds, sandboxes, entitlements, and so on. Obviously people manage to fight through this, but it's a long way from being friendly and accessible. IMO only VBA gets close to being a successful no-separate-toolchain environment - which is one of the main reasons VBA became so popular. (You could argue Python is, but I don't think it's equivalent, because unlike VBA and HyperCard the first thing the user sees is the editor, and not a product that's obviously and immediately useful, but also happens to include a code editor.)
mempko 12y ago
Developers are definitely not the typical users. The hoops you have to jump through now are much greater than Apple II Where you got a BASIC prompt. I think the reason people are scared of such things is not because they are incapable of learning the tools, but because developer culture has a good reason to make it look hard. Otherwise, why are we payed so well?

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago

Apple still supports Widgets, which are canned JavaScript built to run in a special Dashboard app. (Does anyone still develop Widgets?) But this still misses the point about HyperCard, which was that Hypercard was its own toolchain. To get started with it, you didn't have to: Install a separate editor Learn a separate editor Install a build system Learn how to build a project Learn how to share code Deal with dependencies It's the no-separate-toolchain feature that made HyperCard so accessible, and which was influenced by SmallTalk. Modern programming is a nightmare in comparison - including modern app programming. Just because Apple uses Objective-C doesn't mean it's approaching app development in a SmallTalk-like way. Getting an app out of Xcode and into the store is a horror story of provisioning profiles, debug vs production builds, sandboxes, entitlements, and so on. Obviously people manage to fight through this, but it's a long way from being friendly and accessible. IMO only VBA gets close to being a successful no-separate-toolchain environment - which is one of the main reasons VBA became so popular. (You could argue Python is, but I don't think it's equivalent, because unlike VBA and HyperCard the first thing the user sees is the editor, and not a product that's obviously and immediately useful, but also happens to include a code editor.)

mempko 12y ago

Developers are definitely not the typical users. The hoops you have to jump through now are much greater than Apple II Where you got a BASIC prompt. I think the reason people are scared of such things is not because they are incapable of learning the tools, but because developer culture has a good reason to make it look hard. Otherwise, why are we payed so well?