10 ms·

What's the benefit of a startup? Seems like more hours for less pay while always needing to get things done. I fail to see the appeal. They just have lunches

by coned88 12y ago

What's the benefit of a startup? Seems like more hours for less pay while always needing to get things done. I fail to see the appeal. They just have lunches and dinners which appeal to people.

jitl 12y ago
There's a lot of appeal in ownership of large parts of a product, building something from the ground up, lots of green-field development, fun chances to fiddle with new things, and of course lots of equity in something (you want to make) great.
wesleytodd 12y ago
I left an agency job for a startup and got ~double the pay. Also, the work is WAY more rewarding. I don't even feel the need to work on side projects at home every night anymore...
evo_9 12y ago
Startups are great experience. If you are lucky enough to be a technical co-founder then you get to pick the platform, design the system and generally call all the shots on the tech side. That alone can be quite rewarding. I'd say that was the most compelling reason for me personally. There are a whole litany of standard answers to that question such as greater risk = great reward potential, the ability to choose and work on something you are truly interested in and/or passionate about. I feel like the reasons are somewhat obvious as most HN'ers are aware of the pros/cons of this choice though I encourage others to chime in, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.
- sqyttles 12y ago
  I've never worked for a start-up in a development role before, but I think I would like it. I am 28, fresh out of grad school and working for a bank currently. I like my coworkers and the work but when I walk by management and I overhear "We're not a development shop," I get disheartened because banks are becoming data centers and have to be in the software game. Take a look at... Dwolla: they are out to destroy the Automated Clearing House industry. Bitcoin: banks need to know how to interface with that! Micropayments: same deal. Mobile: OCR for check deposits! Data science/analytics ("big data"): obvious. Banks that fail to adopt a hacker culture because IT is a "cost center" (despite the fact that all operational units of any business are) will crumble.
  - BRitterbeck 12y ago
    Is your background more tech or more finance?
    - tonyhb 12y ago
      Not to discredit your question which is important in context... I feel like Both of them overlap and there are some really, really interesting problems in finance which most people don't have the balls to solve. There's a reason fintech startups are few and far between in comparison to the rest.
      - BRitterbeck 12y ago
        I was asking because I used to work in a bank, participated in two fintech startups, and have returned to banking due to circumstances with my family. I was going to target my advice based on the answer; however, after thinking this over some more, my advice would be the same for either answer. Stay in banking. There are a lot of problems in banking that need to be solved, and I think being on the inside of the bank gives one the best chance at solving those problems.
    - sqyttles 12y ago
      Tech definitely.
bjr- 12y ago
Leverage. Everything you do is magnified, good and bad.
asibehar 12y ago
The very "needing to get things done" is the appeal - even if the pay is lower (which isn't always the case these days) think of it as investing in your own abilities and skills. I spent all my days, nights, and weekends out of college working on a doomed startup during the first bubble and I'd still describe it as one of the best experiences of my life. It prepared me for all sorts of experiences since then. I was ideating, researching, designing, building, and even publicly presenting multiple new products for a company that didn't have the staff to specialize in any of those needs. I've used those skills at companies big and small since then and have worked alongside those who haven't forged their abilities in the pressure-cooker of a startup - I wouldn't change a thing.
GolfyMcG 12y ago
The real appeal to a startup has little to do with compensation. It's about "benefits" and intangibles. Obviously these will vary depending on the degree to how "start-upy" your company is but I think you can measure it most by the size. In the extreme example, when you start your own company, you own it all. You want casual Fridays? It's done. You want a remote/results-only workplace policy? It's done. Cubicles, private offices, or wide open desk farms - you pick. From a developer's perspective, you don't have to support someone else's code (at least for now). It's YOUR code - but it's also YOUR bug when they do come up. It's much less stressful fixing your own bugs then a "senior" developer who's worked there for 15 years and supposedly knows what he's doing but fails to take responsibility. I previously worked at a large ad tech startup (using that term loosely, they had just gone public and had about 250 people) and it drove me nuts. Particularly, it was the strain of having to work for someone I didn't respect. I left and now run a company with some friends - all of whom I believe to be smarter than I. There is no better feeling than being the dumbest one in the room. That is a luxury rarely afforded at large companies. Invariably, you're going to end up with people at the bottom of the barrel. When you're the owner/boss/hiring manager - you get to pick the people you work with. TL;DR: Startups aren't about compensation it's about the enjoyment of picking the workplace you want to be in. You don't have to worry about working with people you dislike, because you pick them all! Edit: Also forgot to mention, I have learned exponentially more in the last 2 years of running my business than I feel like in the rest of my life combined. It's like software development/product management/sales special forces training - you really end up pushing yourself to do more than you thought you were capable of. Mostly because there is no one else to pick up your slack.
- UK-AL 12y ago
  Big companies provide better benefits, in tangible terms. A lot big/medium companies now have flexi-time, days to work remote. You probably won't get free pizza, but with the extra pay you can buy your own. I've never worked at a startup where you can personally chose the staff.. I've noticed people at startups tend to be developers focused on the latest trends, coding fast, the latest js framework etc, less focus on writing clear maitainable code. Developers at larger companies focus on writing maintainable code, SOLID, TDD etc, less focus on the latest js framework. What do you want?
daxfohl 12y ago
Never getting a raise because that's not built into their budget and there's not a system around it. Having to beg for vacation time and getting maybe a week a year. And after a few years or a few ventures, your friends at big corps are already starting to talk about retirement and pensions, and you realize that's an extra million you gave up. But hey, you can wear shorts!
- markerz 12y ago
  Retiring in your 30's? What an age we live in. What an industry we work in.
  - golgappi 12y ago
    I work at a startup and I am 25. I have saved up some money and seriously considering retirement by the time I am 30. Not that I have a lot of money saved up. I just have a couple of thousand bucks. Nothing fancy. But to me it is a seed money to try out new things, at an age where making huge mistakes wouldn't result in me being 70 and penniless. There will still be enough time to return back to IT once (if) I fail miserably. And it will also be an extended break in the worst case. I want to explore the world, jobs, hobbies, people. I have realized the 8 hours everyday I spend on my desk is the best time to be out and about. The sunshine is literally gone by the time I get off work. If this is what hundreds of years of progress and planning has led to, I think we have failed. So yes, I support people who think about retiring early, and actually living their lives when they are still young. If youth is the best time of one's life, it shouldn't be wasted on the desk.
    - misiti3780 12y ago
      a couple hundred thousand is not enough to retire at 30 though ....
      - fasouto 12y ago
        He is 25, and he plans to retire at 30, in 5 years he may save another couple thousands more. Let's put on the lower part of the "couple" spectrum and say he have 200.000, in 5 years he will have 400.000 USD. This money is enough to retire early with the 4% rule http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need... Maybe you are assuming that he want to live in the states, with the interest of this money he could live easily in Spain, Thailand, Argentina, etc...
thecolorblue 12y ago
I think the startup/established company debate boils down to personal taste, but I do prefer startups for the control you get over your future. My experience with start ups (at least in their growth phase) was that there was no need to switch positions or leave the company to grow professional, you just grow with the company.
geoelectric 12y ago
Aside from all the other (very good) answers regarding technical and corporate culture, the potential for a windfall--either monetary or career--is higher than in a company that either already has or likely never will go public or otherwise exit. I say career because even if you don't make a lot of money, being an early technical member of a successful startup usually A) gives you a fair amount of visibility and credibility in the tech community and B) leads to a number of other job opportunities with startups with more responsibility and/or equity. Being able to execute under pressure is a valuable quality, and once founders or even VC firms know you can do it they start cherry-picking you. Edit: should also add, don't go working for a startup just to go make money off equity. The grand majority won't make you much unless you're a very early hire; you'll probably make more over the same amount of time by investing your higher salary, ESPP, etc. at a more established company. Make sure the other factors are the "real" reason, with potential cash being a secondary one. But I mention it because you ask why other people do it, and that's one reason why.
Retric 12y ago
In theory, equity in a startup. In practice ego and the slim possibility to grow with an organization. Basically, it’s extremely unlikely for a junior developer to be chosen to manage people, unless they happen to be the most senior person there.
untog 12y ago
"Startups" is a very broad brush. But I'd say that creating your own startup is almost always a valuable experience, wheras working for one is often a waste of potential earnings and time.
creese 12y ago
The advantage is learning curve. If you're in the right startup, you'll learning faster than you will anywhere else.
jmspring 12y ago
Benefit of a startup (depending on the stage) -- You get to be involved more broadly, but you will also be working way more. You will learn a lot. Downside of a startup -- you are putting a lot of personal time in for others benefit. Unless you are a Facebook/twitter/google/etc. (all based on luck) an early engineer at a startup is basically wasting away 25-50k/year (depending on level) he could be getting at a public company. I've played the odds, out of about six or seven startups I worked at, one managed to pay out for the previous couple of years of work (and I am was back at market salary). I love startups. I work with some now in my current role, I've consulted with many others over the years, but if your goal is pay for time, they are the wrong place to go. One more potential battle story -- discussions for non-founding CTO of a seed stage startup. The personal sacrifice at the time to accept would have been about $70k/year in guaranteed money for sub 10% equity in the company and a ramp from 45ish hours to 60+hours/week. On paper from everything you can find via glassdoor/angels list/hackernews, the numbers were right regarding the offer. However, what needed to be built (in terms of the service) consulting for the same type of gig would have been $150+/hr and probably much safer/lucrative -- but wasn't an option. Despite adoring the lead angel investor, I passed. I have my own projects going on and battle scars that kick in when I go back to thinking about being an early stage in building out other's startups on salary.
Vadoff 12y ago
There are a wide range of stages for startups. Many post-series A startups pay very competitively in SF (~120-200k). Early stage startups won't usually pay as well or offer as great benefits, so your main draw for working there would be if you really believe in the product and want the equity.
UK-AL 12y ago
I personally would not do a startup, unless I was one of the founders. Or they provided me with a non-nedglible equity stake or the best salary I could get. Most developers get tiny, tiny amounts of equity at startups which don't pay off in the end. And the appeal of "interesting work", soon dissipates when your up against deadlines, and the focus is speed not quality code. As is in most startups. Just working at a successful startup won't automatically bring success, you have to be in a position to capture that success. The easiest way to do that, is be a founder.
- pbz 12y ago
  Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity?
  - Alex3917 12y ago
    > Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity? That depends entirely on the company and the developer, there are no absolute numbers. Keep in mind though that often it's entirely fair that even the earliest employees get vastly less than the founders. After all, they probably didn't spend the last three years living in their parents' basement to get the business to the point of being viable for full-time employee #1. E.g. I think it took Kickstarter something like seven years to actually get to launch.
  - frostmatthew 12y ago
    For me, there's no amount of equity that would be "adequate" - if a company wants to include some in an offer, great, but it's not going to be a factor in my decision. Most likely the equity will be worth nothing or very little - I thus value it at zero so I'm not willing to give up any amount of salary for it.
    - jeffmould 12y ago
      I tend to agree with you in that I do not weigh a decision based on the amount of equity they are offering. A little side story as to why I do not weigh equity as I used to. Back in the first bubble (1998-2000) I went to work for a startup that had good leadership, big investors, and really came to define the SaaS model (although we called it an Application Service Provider at the time). I took a slight pay cut to come to work there, but I saw upside and they offered me a great equity package. A year and half down the road we were growing and planning to go public. They had not planned well and given out too much equity. Prior to the IPO we had to do an 8 to 1 reverse split, meaning that for every 8 shares you had you now had 1. Although the IPO was fairly successful out of the gate, moral was destroyed by the reverse split. However, with that in mind, I will still give up salary in return for equity if I am (a) passionate about the business idea, (b) believe that there is a good chance that the business will succeed, (c) believe in the founders and team that is already in place, including any investors. And looking back (I am in my 40s now) the younger you are the more risk you can absorb in terms of equity. I enjoy the startup world and am willing to take risks. Plus, like any other job if it doesn't look like it is panning out or you are unhappy there is nothing holding you there.
dsuth 12y ago
Risk vs reward. When you are young, it makes a lot of sense to take risky ventures with potentially huge payoffs, as you tend to have less responsibilities. As you get older, you tend to become naturally more risk averse, and look for more reliable income streams to keep your responsibilities filled.
- UK-AL 12y ago
  Make sure that risk, is balanced with a potential reward though. To many young people think just because a startup sells, your going to end with some of that cash. Most likely your not going to end up with any of that cash, unless you get into the right position first.

by coned88 12y ago

What's the benefit of a startup? Seems like more hours for less pay while always needing to get things done. I fail to see the appeal. They just have lunches and dinners which appeal to people.

jitl 12y ago

There's a lot of appeal in ownership of large parts of a product, building something from the ground up, lots of green-field development, fun chances to fiddle with new things, and of course lots of equity in something (you want to make) great.

wesleytodd 12y ago

I left an agency job for a startup and got ~double the pay. Also, the work is WAY more rewarding. I don't even feel the need to work on side projects at home every night anymore...

evo_9 12y ago

Startups are great experience. If you are lucky enough to be a technical co-founder then you get to pick the platform, design the system and generally call all the shots on the tech side. That alone can be quite rewarding. I'd say that was the most compelling reason for me personally. There are a whole litany of standard answers to that question such as greater risk = great reward potential, the ability to choose and work on something you are truly interested in and/or passionate about. I feel like the reasons are somewhat obvious as most HN'ers are aware of the pros/cons of this choice though I encourage others to chime in, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch.

sqyttles 12y ago
I've never worked for a start-up in a development role before, but I think I would like it. I am 28, fresh out of grad school and working for a bank currently. I like my coworkers and the work but when I walk by management and I overhear "We're not a development shop," I get disheartened because banks are becoming data centers and have to be in the software game. Take a look at... Dwolla: they are out to destroy the Automated Clearing House industry. Bitcoin: banks need to know how to interface with that! Micropayments: same deal. Mobile: OCR for check deposits! Data science/analytics ("big data"): obvious. Banks that fail to adopt a hacker culture because IT is a "cost center" (despite the fact that all operational units of any business are) will crumble.
- BRitterbeck 12y ago
  Is your background more tech or more finance?
  - tonyhb 12y ago
    Not to discredit your question which is important in context... I feel like Both of them overlap and there are some really, really interesting problems in finance which most people don't have the balls to solve. There's a reason fintech startups are few and far between in comparison to the rest.
    - BRitterbeck 12y ago
      I was asking because I used to work in a bank, participated in two fintech startups, and have returned to banking due to circumstances with my family. I was going to target my advice based on the answer; however, after thinking this over some more, my advice would be the same for either answer. Stay in banking. There are a lot of problems in banking that need to be solved, and I think being on the inside of the bank gives one the best chance at solving those problems.
  - sqyttles 12y ago
    Tech definitely.

bjr- 12y ago

Leverage. Everything you do is magnified, good and bad.

asibehar 12y ago

The very "needing to get things done" is the appeal - even if the pay is lower (which isn't always the case these days) think of it as investing in your own abilities and skills. I spent all my days, nights, and weekends out of college working on a doomed startup during the first bubble and I'd still describe it as one of the best experiences of my life. It prepared me for all sorts of experiences since then. I was ideating, researching, designing, building, and even publicly presenting multiple new products for a company that didn't have the staff to specialize in any of those needs. I've used those skills at companies big and small since then and have worked alongside those who haven't forged their abilities in the pressure-cooker of a startup - I wouldn't change a thing.

GolfyMcG 12y ago

The real appeal to a startup has little to do with compensation. It's about "benefits" and intangibles. Obviously these will vary depending on the degree to how "start-upy" your company is but I think you can measure it most by the size. In the extreme example, when you start your own company, you own it all. You want casual Fridays? It's done. You want a remote/results-only workplace policy? It's done. Cubicles, private offices, or wide open desk farms - you pick. From a developer's perspective, you don't have to support someone else's code (at least for now). It's YOUR code - but it's also YOUR bug when they do come up. It's much less stressful fixing your own bugs then a "senior" developer who's worked there for 15 years and supposedly knows what he's doing but fails to take responsibility. I previously worked at a large ad tech startup (using that term loosely, they had just gone public and had about 250 people) and it drove me nuts. Particularly, it was the strain of having to work for someone I didn't respect. I left and now run a company with some friends - all of whom I believe to be smarter than I. There is no better feeling than being the dumbest one in the room. That is a luxury rarely afforded at large companies. Invariably, you're going to end up with people at the bottom of the barrel. When you're the owner/boss/hiring manager - you get to pick the people you work with. TL;DR: Startups aren't about compensation it's about the enjoyment of picking the workplace you want to be in. You don't have to worry about working with people you dislike, because you pick them all! Edit: Also forgot to mention, I have learned exponentially more in the last 2 years of running my business than I feel like in the rest of my life combined. It's like software development/product management/sales special forces training - you really end up pushing yourself to do more than you thought you were capable of. Mostly because there is no one else to pick up your slack.

UK-AL 12y ago
Big companies provide better benefits, in tangible terms. A lot big/medium companies now have flexi-time, days to work remote. You probably won't get free pizza, but with the extra pay you can buy your own. I've never worked at a startup where you can personally chose the staff.. I've noticed people at startups tend to be developers focused on the latest trends, coding fast, the latest js framework etc, less focus on writing clear maitainable code. Developers at larger companies focus on writing maintainable code, SOLID, TDD etc, less focus on the latest js framework. What do you want?

daxfohl 12y ago

Never getting a raise because that's not built into their budget and there's not a system around it. Having to beg for vacation time and getting maybe a week a year. And after a few years or a few ventures, your friends at big corps are already starting to talk about retirement and pensions, and you realize that's an extra million you gave up. But hey, you can wear shorts!

markerz 12y ago
Retiring in your 30's? What an age we live in. What an industry we work in.
- golgappi 12y ago
  I work at a startup and I am 25. I have saved up some money and seriously considering retirement by the time I am 30. Not that I have a lot of money saved up. I just have a couple of thousand bucks. Nothing fancy. But to me it is a seed money to try out new things, at an age where making huge mistakes wouldn't result in me being 70 and penniless. There will still be enough time to return back to IT once (if) I fail miserably. And it will also be an extended break in the worst case. I want to explore the world, jobs, hobbies, people. I have realized the 8 hours everyday I spend on my desk is the best time to be out and about. The sunshine is literally gone by the time I get off work. If this is what hundreds of years of progress and planning has led to, I think we have failed. So yes, I support people who think about retiring early, and actually living their lives when they are still young. If youth is the best time of one's life, it shouldn't be wasted on the desk.
  - misiti3780 12y ago
    a couple hundred thousand is not enough to retire at 30 though ....
    - fasouto 12y ago
      He is 25, and he plans to retire at 30, in 5 years he may save another couple thousands more. Let's put on the lower part of the "couple" spectrum and say he have 200.000, in 5 years he will have 400.000 USD. This money is enough to retire early with the 4% rule http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need-for-retirement/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need... Maybe you are assuming that he want to live in the states, with the interest of this money he could live easily in Spain, Thailand, Argentina, etc...

thecolorblue 12y ago

I think the startup/established company debate boils down to personal taste, but I do prefer startups for the control you get over your future. My experience with start ups (at least in their growth phase) was that there was no need to switch positions or leave the company to grow professional, you just grow with the company.

geoelectric 12y ago

Aside from all the other (very good) answers regarding technical and corporate culture, the potential for a windfall--either monetary or career--is higher than in a company that either already has or likely never will go public or otherwise exit. I say career because even if you don't make a lot of money, being an early technical member of a successful startup usually A) gives you a fair amount of visibility and credibility in the tech community and B) leads to a number of other job opportunities with startups with more responsibility and/or equity. Being able to execute under pressure is a valuable quality, and once founders or even VC firms know you can do it they start cherry-picking you. Edit: should also add, don't go working for a startup just to go make money off equity. The grand majority won't make you much unless you're a very early hire; you'll probably make more over the same amount of time by investing your higher salary, ESPP, etc. at a more established company. Make sure the other factors are the "real" reason, with potential cash being a secondary one. But I mention it because you ask why other people do it, and that's one reason why.

Retric 12y ago

In theory, equity in a startup. In practice ego and the slim possibility to grow with an organization. Basically, it’s extremely unlikely for a junior developer to be chosen to manage people, unless they happen to be the most senior person there.

untog 12y ago

"Startups" is a very broad brush. But I'd say that creating your own startup is almost always a valuable experience, wheras working for one is often a waste of potential earnings and time.

creese 12y ago

The advantage is learning curve. If you're in the right startup, you'll learning faster than you will anywhere else.

jmspring 12y ago

Benefit of a startup (depending on the stage) -- You get to be involved more broadly, but you will also be working way more. You will learn a lot. Downside of a startup -- you are putting a lot of personal time in for others benefit. Unless you are a Facebook/twitter/google/etc. (all based on luck) an early engineer at a startup is basically wasting away 25-50k/year (depending on level) he could be getting at a public company. I've played the odds, out of about six or seven startups I worked at, one managed to pay out for the previous couple of years of work (and I am was back at market salary). I love startups. I work with some now in my current role, I've consulted with many others over the years, but if your goal is pay for time, they are the wrong place to go. One more potential battle story -- discussions for non-founding CTO of a seed stage startup. The personal sacrifice at the time to accept would have been about $70k/year in guaranteed money for sub 10% equity in the company and a ramp from 45ish hours to 60+hours/week. On paper from everything you can find via glassdoor/angels list/hackernews, the numbers were right regarding the offer. However, what needed to be built (in terms of the service) consulting for the same type of gig would have been $150+/hr and probably much safer/lucrative -- but wasn't an option. Despite adoring the lead angel investor, I passed. I have my own projects going on and battle scars that kick in when I go back to thinking about being an early stage in building out other's startups on salary.

Vadoff 12y ago

There are a wide range of stages for startups. Many post-series A startups pay very competitively in SF (~120-200k). Early stage startups won't usually pay as well or offer as great benefits, so your main draw for working there would be if you really believe in the product and want the equity.

UK-AL 12y ago

I personally would not do a startup, unless I was one of the founders. Or they provided me with a non-nedglible equity stake or the best salary I could get. Most developers get tiny, tiny amounts of equity at startups which don't pay off in the end. And the appeal of "interesting work", soon dissipates when your up against deadlines, and the focus is speed not quality code. As is in most startups. Just working at a successful startup won't automatically bring success, you have to be in a position to capture that success. The easiest way to do that, is be a founder.

pbz 12y ago
Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity?
- Alex3917 12y ago
  > Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity? That depends entirely on the company and the developer, there are no absolute numbers. Keep in mind though that often it's entirely fair that even the earliest employees get vastly less than the founders. After all, they probably didn't spend the last three years living in their parents' basement to get the business to the point of being viable for full-time employee #1. E.g. I think it took Kickstarter something like seven years to actually get to launch.
- frostmatthew 12y ago
  For me, there's no amount of equity that would be "adequate" - if a company wants to include some in an offer, great, but it's not going to be a factor in my decision. Most likely the equity will be worth nothing or very little - I thus value it at zero so I'm not willing to give up any amount of salary for it.
  - jeffmould 12y ago
    I tend to agree with you in that I do not weigh a decision based on the amount of equity they are offering. A little side story as to why I do not weigh equity as I used to. Back in the first bubble (1998-2000) I went to work for a startup that had good leadership, big investors, and really came to define the SaaS model (although we called it an Application Service Provider at the time). I took a slight pay cut to come to work there, but I saw upside and they offered me a great equity package. A year and half down the road we were growing and planning to go public. They had not planned well and given out too much equity. Prior to the IPO we had to do an 8 to 1 reverse split, meaning that for every 8 shares you had you now had 1. Although the IPO was fairly successful out of the gate, moral was destroyed by the reverse split. However, with that in mind, I will still give up salary in return for equity if I am (a) passionate about the business idea, (b) believe that there is a good chance that the business will succeed, (c) believe in the founders and team that is already in place, including any investors. And looking back (I am in my 40s now) the younger you are the more risk you can absorb in terms of equity. I enjoy the startup world and am willing to take risks. Plus, like any other job if it doesn't look like it is panning out or you are unhappy there is nothing holding you there.

dsuth 12y ago

Risk vs reward. When you are young, it makes a lot of sense to take risky ventures with potentially huge payoffs, as you tend to have less responsibilities. As you get older, you tend to become naturally more risk averse, and look for more reliable income streams to keep your responsibilities filled.

UK-AL 12y ago
Make sure that risk, is balanced with a potential reward though. To many young people think just because a startup sells, your going to end with some of that cash. Most likely your not going to end up with any of that cash, unless you get into the right position first.