4 ms·

We're a LAMP shop that is doing more and more angular. I contract with many HNers. Please email johnny d0t goodman @ cpap d07 com if interested in discussing fu

by johnnyg 12y ago

We're a LAMP shop that is doing more and more angular. I contract with many HNers. Please email johnny d0t goodman @ cpap d07 com if interested in discussing further and setting up a fizzbuzz.

dopamean 12y ago
What does "setting up a fizzbuzz" mean?
- ianamartin 12y ago
  Phone screen.
- throwawayornot 12y ago
  A Captain Kirk card game? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77SF4TFUoM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77SF4TFUoM
- arenaninja 12y ago
  Not sure if you're serious, but in case you are, it's a simple programming exercise to make sure that you can program your way out of a paper cup in your proclaimed language of choice. Details on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizz_buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizz_buzz
- volkadav 12y ago
  As mentioned, a phone screen, to check if the person is minimally capable of doing the job. So named for the FizzBuzz problem, described for example here: http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
- saturdayplace 12y ago
  "fizzbuzz" is coding exercise, used by companies looking to screen out applicants who claim to be able to code, but in fact cannot. The applicant is asked to write a short program that prints the numbers 1-100 (or whatever). When the number is divisible by 3, instead of printing it, print the word "fizz". When divisibly by 5, print "buzz". When divisible by both, print "fizzbuzz." To anyone who actually can code, it seems ridiculous that people are applying to coding positions who can't come up with a solution to this, but anecdotally many hiring managers routinely encounter such applicants. I suspect the parent here is using the term "set up a fizzbuzz" as shorthand for "set up some time to see if you can actually cross the bare minimum coding hurdle."
  - ubertaco 12y ago
    Still sounds like the developer version of the annoying "have your people call my people, let's do lunch" cliché.
- codyb 12y ago
  I believe it means setting up an opportunity to evaluate the skills of the professional inquiring about the job. See http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FizzBuzzTest http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FizzBuzzTest
jacquesm 12y ago
Props to you for reaching out, but would you still apply a fizzbuzz test to someone that has just been the major driver behind building an angular app?
- johnnyg 12y ago
  Yes. While I mean no disrespect the pass to fail ratio on them is 5:1 or worse. I've got to check so that when I pay for an hour of work I get an hour of value. I read blog posts to the contrary. They say how awful it is that these "dumb HR people" ask these basic things. Well, I've probably done 200 technical interviews, mostly from HN, and unfortunately this is my experience. If I must choose between unpopular and ineffective, then bring on the fizzbuzz. If you do pass the screen, I guarantee you those you will be working with are smart and effective too. So effective and so enjoyable in fact, that I keep doing these interviews in order to find them! @jacquesm - You are internet famous, I love your blog and admire your work. I know we're on different sides of this. If you care to pick this apart, I will read it with an open mind and respond as factually as I can.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Being internet famous is overrated. Anyway, if you're going to start off from the premise that the OP is fibbing about their capabilities then you're starting off your relationship based on distrust. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt, give them a real test of their capabilities than to start off with something that has value when you're evaluating 100's of applicants for a specific job position so you can save yourself some time but here you're only dealing with one applicant and effectively you're the one now reaching out to him. In that situation I think a fizzbuzz test is a bit strange. But, it's your company and I don't think anybody should tell you how to run it, I was just curious about why you'd administer this particular test on someone that should be able to not only ace it but will likely be insulted by it.
    - johnnyg 12y ago
      What do you think of Regan's "trust by verify"? How do you define "a real test of their capabilities"? While we start the hour long skills test off with some fizzbuzz weeders, we quickly move into harder questions pulled out of issues we've resolved in the real world that are likely to be of the same shape of future work. If people are offended by fizzbuzz, they don't express it often during interviews/employment/exit interviews. The most common reaction from someone who can solve it is a bit of a wink and a nod as they slay it and move on to the "real" stuff. I've never had anyone ace our test. No one is a 10 everywhere. I think there's a lot of value in how you approach things and react to a blocker or limitation. We watch this closely too. It isn't just about saying "Every answer is correct, so hire me". Lastly, we're out of Houston, TX. I'm guessing the culture is very different in CA and perhaps that's the mismatch.

by johnnyg 12y ago

We're a LAMP shop that is doing more and more angular. I contract with many HNers. Please email johnny d0t goodman @ cpap d07 com if interested in discussing further and setting up a fizzbuzz.

dopamean 12y ago

What does "setting up a fizzbuzz" mean?

ianamartin 12y ago
Phone screen.
throwawayornot 12y ago
A Captain Kirk card game? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77SF4TFUoM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77SF4TFUoM
arenaninja 12y ago
Not sure if you're serious, but in case you are, it's a simple programming exercise to make sure that you can program your way out of a paper cup in your proclaimed language of choice. Details on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizz_buzz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizz_buzz
volkadav 12y ago
As mentioned, a phone screen, to check if the person is minimally capable of doing the job. So named for the FizzBuzz problem, described for example here: http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
saturdayplace 12y ago
"fizzbuzz" is coding exercise, used by companies looking to screen out applicants who claim to be able to code, but in fact cannot. The applicant is asked to write a short program that prints the numbers 1-100 (or whatever). When the number is divisible by 3, instead of printing it, print the word "fizz". When divisibly by 5, print "buzz". When divisible by both, print "fizzbuzz." To anyone who actually can code, it seems ridiculous that people are applying to coding positions who can't come up with a solution to this, but anecdotally many hiring managers routinely encounter such applicants. I suspect the parent here is using the term "set up a fizzbuzz" as shorthand for "set up some time to see if you can actually cross the bare minimum coding hurdle."
- ubertaco 12y ago
  Still sounds like the developer version of the annoying "have your people call my people, let's do lunch" cliché.
codyb 12y ago
I believe it means setting up an opportunity to evaluate the skills of the professional inquiring about the job. See http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FizzBuzzTest http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FizzBuzzTest

jacquesm 12y ago

Props to you for reaching out, but would you still apply a fizzbuzz test to someone that has just been the major driver behind building an angular app?

johnnyg 12y ago
Yes. While I mean no disrespect the pass to fail ratio on them is 5:1 or worse. I've got to check so that when I pay for an hour of work I get an hour of value. I read blog posts to the contrary. They say how awful it is that these "dumb HR people" ask these basic things. Well, I've probably done 200 technical interviews, mostly from HN, and unfortunately this is my experience. If I must choose between unpopular and ineffective, then bring on the fizzbuzz. If you do pass the screen, I guarantee you those you will be working with are smart and effective too. So effective and so enjoyable in fact, that I keep doing these interviews in order to find them! @jacquesm - You are internet famous, I love your blog and admire your work. I know we're on different sides of this. If you care to pick this apart, I will read it with an open mind and respond as factually as I can.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Being internet famous is overrated. Anyway, if you're going to start off from the premise that the OP is fibbing about their capabilities then you're starting off your relationship based on distrust. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt, give them a real test of their capabilities than to start off with something that has value when you're evaluating 100's of applicants for a specific job position so you can save yourself some time but here you're only dealing with one applicant and effectively you're the one now reaching out to him. In that situation I think a fizzbuzz test is a bit strange. But, it's your company and I don't think anybody should tell you how to run it, I was just curious about why you'd administer this particular test on someone that should be able to not only ace it but will likely be insulted by it.
  - johnnyg 12y ago
    What do you think of Regan's "trust by verify"? How do you define "a real test of their capabilities"? While we start the hour long skills test off with some fizzbuzz weeders, we quickly move into harder questions pulled out of issues we've resolved in the real world that are likely to be of the same shape of future work. If people are offended by fizzbuzz, they don't express it often during interviews/employment/exit interviews. The most common reaction from someone who can solve it is a bit of a wink and a nod as they slay it and move on to the "real" stuff. I've never had anyone ace our test. No one is a 10 everywhere. I think there's a lot of value in how you approach things and react to a blocker or limitation. We watch this closely too. It isn't just about saying "Every answer is correct, so hire me". Lastly, we're out of Houston, TX. I'm guessing the culture is very different in CA and perhaps that's the mismatch.