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I'm not entirely sure what it is you're suggesting. The EU is designed to make us (Germany, France, etc.) more competitive. That unfortunately also means that c

I'm not entirely sure what it is you're suggesting. The EU is designed to make us (Germany, France, etc.) more competitive. That unfortunately also means that countries like Greece don't profit as much (or at all, for that matter), but then again, nobody was forced to join to EU. > I think it's time Germany admits to that and pays its dues, by which I mean help finance the rest of EU (via a fiscal union). Do you really think we don't know what we're doing? You say we need to "pay our dues". You do realize we're talking about the fact that Greece can't pay it's dues, yes? As far as help financing the rest of the EU goes, keep on dreaming. There is no way any german is going to vote for that given that we have plenty of kids growing up below the poverty line.

tomp 12y ago
> I'm not entirely sure what it is you're suggesting. The EU is designed to make us (Germany, France, etc.) more competitive. That unfortunately also means that countries like Greece don't profit as much (or at all, for that matter), but then again, nobody was forced to join to EU. I'm suggesting that Euro (this has nothing to do with EU directly) can't survive if PIGS countries keep on loosing while Germany keeps on winning. Personally, I think it would be beneficial to keep the Euro and instantiate a fiscal union (like the US), but it's not up to me to decide. If Germany thinks it's in their interest to keep the Euro (and not have current Euro members exit the currency), it will have to think about other's interests as well. Ultimately, it's not a question if EU/Euro makes some countries more competitive (edit: relative to others) on this continent, but rather, if we stick together as a major global player. > You do realize we're talking about the fact that Greece can't pay it's dues, That's just because it doesn't control it's own currency. Otherwise, it could just devalue it, reduce the real value of its debt, and export more, i.e. normal monetary policy. > There is no way any german is going to vote for that The politicians will have to convince them, or do without the popular vote. It's not like the Greeks voted for austerity either...
- woud420 12y ago
  Just out of curiosity, how would Greece having control of it's own currency reduce the real value of it's debt at this point? Considering 90%+ (to my knowledge but I could be wrong) of it's debt is to foreign countries and currently in Euro, even if it left the Euro and returned to the Drachma, wouldn't printing more money just reduce the debt's real value to it's internal creditors (pensions)? Wouldn't that also be against what the current government is trying to achieve?
  - tomp 12y ago
    Yes. My answer was assuming that Greece never took up Euro in the first place. In that case, it would probably issue debt in Drachmas (although not all countries do - e.g. Argentina issued it's debt in USD under NY jurisdiction, because having defaulted so many times, it couldn't sell bonds in Pesos under its own jurisdiction).

tomp 12y ago

> I'm not entirely sure what it is you're suggesting. The EU is designed to make us (Germany, France, etc.) more competitive. That unfortunately also means that countries like Greece don't profit as much (or at all, for that matter), but then again, nobody was forced to join to EU. I'm suggesting that Euro (this has nothing to do with EU directly) can't survive if PIGS countries keep on loosing while Germany keeps on winning. Personally, I think it would be beneficial to keep the Euro and instantiate a fiscal union (like the US), but it's not up to me to decide. If Germany thinks it's in their interest to keep the Euro (and not have current Euro members exit the currency), it will have to think about other's interests as well. Ultimately, it's not a question if EU/Euro makes some countries more competitive (edit: relative to others) on this continent, but rather, if we stick together as a major global player. > You do realize we're talking about the fact that Greece can't pay it's dues, That's just because it doesn't control it's own currency. Otherwise, it could just devalue it, reduce the real value of its debt, and export more, i.e. normal monetary policy. > There is no way any german is going to vote for that The politicians will have to convince them, or do without the popular vote. It's not like the Greeks voted for austerity either...

woud420 12y ago
Just out of curiosity, how would Greece having control of it's own currency reduce the real value of it's debt at this point? Considering 90%+ (to my knowledge but I could be wrong) of it's debt is to foreign countries and currently in Euro, even if it left the Euro and returned to the Drachma, wouldn't printing more money just reduce the debt's real value to it's internal creditors (pensions)? Wouldn't that also be against what the current government is trying to achieve?
- tomp 12y ago
  Yes. My answer was assuming that Greece never took up Euro in the first place. In that case, it would probably issue debt in Drachmas (although not all countries do - e.g. Argentina issued it's debt in USD under NY jurisdiction, because having defaulted so many times, it couldn't sell bonds in Pesos under its own jurisdiction).