4 ms·

Gladwell: "Aspiring journalists should stop going to journalism programs..."

38 points by robg 17y ago

falsestprophet 17y ago
Every journalist I have put this question to agrees. I, however, took the idea a step further than not going to journalism school and decided against being a journalist altogether. I submit that is the best solution.
- unalone 17y ago
  That works unless you really want to be a journalist.
scott_s 17y ago
"...and go to some other kind of grad school." The second half of that sentence is important. He's saying learn a subject that most people don't know, and write about that. That's a different message than the implications from just saying "Don't go to journalism programs."
- robg 17y ago
  I agree, just that darn character limit. You got a way to combine the two thoughts into 80 characters or less? The difference between a lede (from a quote) and a shortened tweet, I guess.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    In this case, I think it changed the tenor the the statement completely. How about: Gladwell to aspiring journalists: Become an expert first, then write
    - robg 17y ago
      Upvote but I try not to write unique ledes here even if they're true. It just seems like a slippery slope from interpreting to simply reporting. I link, you decide! That's good but I'm afraid my edit clock ran out.
      - scott_s 17y ago
        What's worse, a partial direct quotation that you know will leave the wrong impression, or a summary of the point you find interesting that might betray your bias? I'd rather go with the bias. Particularly since the literal title for this article would just be "Q&A: Author Malcom Gladwell." That doesn't tell me why you linked to it.
        robg 17y ago
        Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that question and for me I bet I'm not consistent day to day or hour to hour. To try to put into words what I think is going on in my head: I link based on something in the piece that I think folks here will find interesting. But I don't assume that the title will be sufficient. Only that it will be a primer for following the link. In this case, the given title wasn't good. So I tried to pick out the primer that led to my saying: "That's interesting". But admittedly I won't spend more than a few seconds thinking about the title. I'm just not too worried about accuracy so long as it's in the general semantic ballpark. I'd say if it leads to an incomplete impression which the article resolves then I'm okay with it. That's why I added the ellipse. Sorry, I'll try to do better but I'll probably fail. The bookmarklet makes it easy to just throw up interesting stuff. The title for me is simply a shorthand for saying: This was interesting to me. I similarly interpret upvotes - this was interesting to the community. Comments start to get at accuracy - kind of. To be honest though, even as Gladwell says that second part, it seems to me he wants real world experience informing journalism. I think that's the most interesting bit. Grad school, it seems to me, is itself sheltered from "real" stories. That's my current bias, I guess.
    - omouse 17y ago
      It'd be nice if he did that himself...
      - unalone 17y ago
        He's a brilliant writer and a terrible journalist. I agree with you. I can tolerate him, because he's not obnoxious about his writings (versus somebody like Cory Doctorow, who has a similar ratio of popularity-to-understanding), but at the same time a lot of what he says has got to be taken with a grain of salt.
brandnewlow 17y ago
I went to J-School for a graduate degree. I went because I had no contacts in the industry and no experience either and because I wanted to meet people handling the technology side of things. I got my money's worth and came out with a host of interesting people I could reach out to with questions or for advice. For many who want go in thinking it will help their prospects as reporters, however, they are disappointed. Several friends went right back into their old newspaper jobs with just a $2-3k raise and a new title. Others spent 6 months to a year writing for free or stringing until they could land a full-time job. Many went into marketing and PR where there are real jobs that pay decently. It's getting harder and harder to find work as a reporter. meanwhile these schools keep churning out newly minted grads who think having a bunch of clips will be enough. It's worrisome.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- alexandros 17y ago
  This came up today on a journalism blog I follow. http://fleetstreetblues.blogspot.com/2009/10/triumph-of-hope-over-experience.html http://fleetstreetblues.blogspot.com/2009/10/triumph-of-hope...
  - brandnewlow 17y ago
    Those guys should interview the iCanHazCheeseburgers CEO. He's got to be one of the best examples of a journalist who created his own success in a new direction.
    - wmeredith 17y ago
      I hate to be a wet blanket, but the iCanHazCheeseburgers CEO won the lottery. His LOL Cats blog's success was (self-admittedly) not "created" by him. He doesn't even know why it's successful.
      - brandnewlow 17y ago
req2 17y ago
Compare to engineers becoming marketers: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=890110 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=890110
skmurphy 17y ago
By far the most interesting two paragraphs in the article for me were these: "There's precious little experimentation in education. Instead there seems to be a desire for greater regimentation, which I think is nonsense. I think we need to try 100 different things. If I were Arne Duncan, I'd think of myself as a venture capitalist, fund as many wacky and inventive ideas as I could, and closely monitor them to see how they worked. I've always been fascinated by the idea that in inner-city schools, the thing they do best is sports. They do really, really well in sports. It's not correct to say these schools are dysfunctional; they're highly functional in certain areas. So I've always wondered about using the principles of sports in the classroom. Go same sex; do everything in teams; have teams compete with each other. I'd like to try that. I don't know whether it will work, but it's certainly worth a shot, and we could learn something really useful."
- brandnewlow 17y ago
  Having spent three summers as a counselor at a military sports camp, I would imagine this approach would work really, really well. If you can put them in a structure with incentives, accountability, clear lines of authority, and very tangible goals, most young men will flourish.
  - abefortas 17y ago
    The teams thing might be an interesting idea. But doesn't "structure with incentives, accountability, clear lines of authority, and very tangible goals" pretty much describe a typical classroom, and doesn't a typical classroom suck?
    - peregrine 17y ago
      If you by structure and incentives you mean do this work or you fail, and by clear lines of authority you mean the teacher is right and if by very tangible goals you mean telling the student that getting an A on this test will mean you have the chance of getting a job after getting about 1000 more As on these tests. Then yes, but making school into a game where people work together(ie not just alone) you drive accountability, incentives to work, and a very tangible result when the team pulls it together.

38 points by robg 17y ago

Every journalist I have put this question to agrees. I, however, took the idea a step further than not going to journalism school and decided against being a journalist altogether. I submit that is the best solution.

unalone 17y ago
That works unless you really want to be a journalist.

scott_s 17y ago

"...and go to some other kind of grad school." The second half of that sentence is important. He's saying learn a subject that most people don't know, and write about that. That's a different message than the implications from just saying "Don't go to journalism programs."

robg 17y ago
I agree, just that darn character limit. You got a way to combine the two thoughts into 80 characters or less? The difference between a lede (from a quote) and a shortened tweet, I guess.
- scott_s 17y ago
  In this case, I think it changed the tenor the the statement completely. How about: Gladwell to aspiring journalists: Become an expert first, then write
  - robg 17y ago
    Upvote but I try not to write unique ledes here even if they're true. It just seems like a slippery slope from interpreting to simply reporting. I link, you decide! That's good but I'm afraid my edit clock ran out.
    - scott_s 17y ago
      What's worse, a partial direct quotation that you know will leave the wrong impression, or a summary of the point you find interesting that might betray your bias? I'd rather go with the bias. Particularly since the literal title for this article would just be "Q&A: Author Malcom Gladwell." That doesn't tell me why you linked to it.
      - robg 17y ago
        Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that question and for me I bet I'm not consistent day to day or hour to hour. To try to put into words what I think is going on in my head: I link based on something in the piece that I think folks here will find interesting. But I don't assume that the title will be sufficient. Only that it will be a primer for following the link. In this case, the given title wasn't good. So I tried to pick out the primer that led to my saying: "That's interesting". But admittedly I won't spend more than a few seconds thinking about the title. I'm just not too worried about accuracy so long as it's in the general semantic ballpark. I'd say if it leads to an incomplete impression which the article resolves then I'm okay with it. That's why I added the ellipse. Sorry, I'll try to do better but I'll probably fail. The bookmarklet makes it easy to just throw up interesting stuff. The title for me is simply a shorthand for saying: This was interesting to me. I similarly interpret upvotes - this was interesting to the community. Comments start to get at accuracy - kind of. To be honest though, even as Gladwell says that second part, it seems to me he wants real world experience informing journalism. I think that's the most interesting bit. Grad school, it seems to me, is itself sheltered from "real" stories. That's my current bias, I guess.
  - omouse 17y ago
    It'd be nice if he did that himself...
    - unalone 17y ago
      He's a brilliant writer and a terrible journalist. I agree with you. I can tolerate him, because he's not obnoxious about his writings (versus somebody like Cory Doctorow, who has a similar ratio of popularity-to-understanding), but at the same time a lot of what he says has got to be taken with a grain of salt.

brandnewlow 17y ago

I went to J-School for a graduate degree. I went because I had no contacts in the industry and no experience either and because I wanted to meet people handling the technology side of things. I got my money's worth and came out with a host of interesting people I could reach out to with questions or for advice. For many who want go in thinking it will help their prospects as reporters, however, they are disappointed. Several friends went right back into their old newspaper jobs with just a $2-3k raise and a new title. Others spent 6 months to a year writing for free or stringing until they could land a full-time job. Many went into marketing and PR where there are real jobs that pay decently. It's getting harder and harder to find work as a reporter. meanwhile these schools keep churning out newly minted grads who think having a bunch of clips will be enough. It's worrisome.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
alexandros 17y ago
This came up today on a journalism blog I follow. http://fleetstreetblues.blogspot.com/2009/10/triumph-of-hope-over-experience.html http://fleetstreetblues.blogspot.com/2009/10/triumph-of-hope...
- brandnewlow 17y ago
  Those guys should interview the iCanHazCheeseburgers CEO. He's got to be one of the best examples of a journalist who created his own success in a new direction.
  - wmeredith 17y ago
    I hate to be a wet blanket, but the iCanHazCheeseburgers CEO won the lottery. His LOL Cats blog's success was (self-admittedly) not "created" by him. He doesn't even know why it's successful.
    - brandnewlow 17y ago

req2 17y ago

Compare to engineers becoming marketers: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=890110 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=890110

skmurphy 17y ago

By far the most interesting two paragraphs in the article for me were these: "There's precious little experimentation in education. Instead there seems to be a desire for greater regimentation, which I think is nonsense. I think we need to try 100 different things. If I were Arne Duncan, I'd think of myself as a venture capitalist, fund as many wacky and inventive ideas as I could, and closely monitor them to see how they worked. I've always been fascinated by the idea that in inner-city schools, the thing they do best is sports. They do really, really well in sports. It's not correct to say these schools are dysfunctional; they're highly functional in certain areas. So I've always wondered about using the principles of sports in the classroom. Go same sex; do everything in teams; have teams compete with each other. I'd like to try that. I don't know whether it will work, but it's certainly worth a shot, and we could learn something really useful."

brandnewlow 17y ago
Having spent three summers as a counselor at a military sports camp, I would imagine this approach would work really, really well. If you can put them in a structure with incentives, accountability, clear lines of authority, and very tangible goals, most young men will flourish.
- abefortas 17y ago
  The teams thing might be an interesting idea. But doesn't "structure with incentives, accountability, clear lines of authority, and very tangible goals" pretty much describe a typical classroom, and doesn't a typical classroom suck?
  - peregrine 17y ago
    If you by structure and incentives you mean do this work or you fail, and by clear lines of authority you mean the teacher is right and if by very tangible goals you mean telling the student that getting an A on this test will mean you have the chance of getting a job after getting about 1000 more As on these tests. Then yes, but making school into a game where people work together(ie not just alone) you drive accountability, incentives to work, and a very tangible result when the team pulls it together.