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The finding that an incomplete degree still has an effect on earning is the most surprising to me. I thought college had mostly devolved into a signal about how

by seldo 17y ago

The finding that an incomplete degree still has an effect on earning is the most surprising to me. I thought college had mostly devolved into a signal about how committed you were to your career, but clearly at least some courses are imparting actual skills. Maybe the effect is greater in community colleges because they tend towards degrees in more practical subjects? (I don't know anything about community college, I'm not from the US)

tjr 17y ago
I attended a community college (mostly during high school) and also have taught at one. In my experience, the community college offers two general styles of education programs: one is more or less equivalent to the first two years of a 4-year college, and the other is primarily focused on skill development. Many students who plan on completing a 4-year degree start at the community college for a year or two, because they can complete a lot of the general education requirements for the 4-year degree cheaper and/or easier. Other students attend a community college basically to learn a trade. While the college might have a 2-year program in computer science, they may also have a 2-year program in "computer programming", offering classes like "Introduction to IBM AS/400", "COBOL Programming", "Java Web Services", etc. For some IT jobs, this sort of training is really more useful (at least in the short term) than a study in computer science. Other "trade" programs that I saw included culinary arts, industrial craftsmanship (welding, usage of AutoCad, etc.), dental assistantship... these are basically terminal associates degrees, and the college tells you up front to not expect these classes to transfer toward any other university program.
- elblanco 17y ago
  You also forget the adult education population that are there for career changes because theirs was cut short, further education for promotions etc. and the foreign student population attending to learn English. The community college system in my area if packed with ESL students from Asia and Africa looking to either return to their home country with a new skill, or move into better life in the U.S. using the CC system as a way to open the doors into the 4-year state schools they wouldn't have been eligible from coming fresh off the boat. IMHO, community college systems are one of the backbones of the American Economy. Cheap, customizable, readily available, flexible and practical education that nearly anybody can benefit from at any age in almost any subject.
stanleydrew 17y ago
Taking individual courses can be just as much of a signal as completing an entire degree. There's nothing here that implies that "some courses are imparting actual skills." What's implied is that the people who actually take courses at community college are likely to earn more than the people who don't. There could be any number of underlying causal factors though, many of which fit with an interpretation of college courses as pure signal.
- solson 17y ago
  I barely made it out of high school. I learned almost nothing academic after the 8th grade. That was back in the days when you passed if you showed up enough. I went to community college and paid for it myself just to learn basic college level english, math, public speaking, finance, economics. I have to say it was worth every dollar. I was never interested in a degree. I didn't have time and money to waste on Women's Studies and Interpersonal Communications and host of other garbage that was required. Today I earn far more than 45% more than the average high school only grad. Not all, but part of my earning ability, I credit to the community college. For the price, you can't go wrong on the core skill stuff. I've never worked for an employer who seemed to care about my education, they all seem to care only about experience and performance. I've never even been asked where I went to college during an interview.
  - stanleydrew 17y ago
    I agree with you completely. I'm not trying to say that community college has no value. I'm just saying that the causal relationship isn't clear. Certainly you shouldn't discount your education's affect on your earning power. The problem is that there's no counterfactual world in which we can observe a version of you who didn't go to community college, so we really don't quite know exactly what it was worth.
elblanco 17y ago
Lots of CC programs are certificate or licensing programs designed to get people into a trade. Anything from electrician to nursing assistant. Those jobs pay far better than most unskilled labor jobs HS only grads are eligible for.

by seldo 17y ago

tjr 17y ago

I attended a community college (mostly during high school) and also have taught at one. In my experience, the community college offers two general styles of education programs: one is more or less equivalent to the first two years of a 4-year college, and the other is primarily focused on skill development. Many students who plan on completing a 4-year degree start at the community college for a year or two, because they can complete a lot of the general education requirements for the 4-year degree cheaper and/or easier. Other students attend a community college basically to learn a trade. While the college might have a 2-year program in computer science, they may also have a 2-year program in "computer programming", offering classes like "Introduction to IBM AS/400", "COBOL Programming", "Java Web Services", etc. For some IT jobs, this sort of training is really more useful (at least in the short term) than a study in computer science. Other "trade" programs that I saw included culinary arts, industrial craftsmanship (welding, usage of AutoCad, etc.), dental assistantship... these are basically terminal associates degrees, and the college tells you up front to not expect these classes to transfer toward any other university program.

elblanco 17y ago
You also forget the adult education population that are there for career changes because theirs was cut short, further education for promotions etc. and the foreign student population attending to learn English. The community college system in my area if packed with ESL students from Asia and Africa looking to either return to their home country with a new skill, or move into better life in the U.S. using the CC system as a way to open the doors into the 4-year state schools they wouldn't have been eligible from coming fresh off the boat. IMHO, community college systems are one of the backbones of the American Economy. Cheap, customizable, readily available, flexible and practical education that nearly anybody can benefit from at any age in almost any subject.

stanleydrew 17y ago

Taking individual courses can be just as much of a signal as completing an entire degree. There's nothing here that implies that "some courses are imparting actual skills." What's implied is that the people who actually take courses at community college are likely to earn more than the people who don't. There could be any number of underlying causal factors though, many of which fit with an interpretation of college courses as pure signal.

solson 17y ago
I barely made it out of high school. I learned almost nothing academic after the 8th grade. That was back in the days when you passed if you showed up enough. I went to community college and paid for it myself just to learn basic college level english, math, public speaking, finance, economics. I have to say it was worth every dollar. I was never interested in a degree. I didn't have time and money to waste on Women's Studies and Interpersonal Communications and host of other garbage that was required. Today I earn far more than 45% more than the average high school only grad. Not all, but part of my earning ability, I credit to the community college. For the price, you can't go wrong on the core skill stuff. I've never worked for an employer who seemed to care about my education, they all seem to care only about experience and performance. I've never even been asked where I went to college during an interview.
- stanleydrew 17y ago
  I agree with you completely. I'm not trying to say that community college has no value. I'm just saying that the causal relationship isn't clear. Certainly you shouldn't discount your education's affect on your earning power. The problem is that there's no counterfactual world in which we can observe a version of you who didn't go to community college, so we really don't quite know exactly what it was worth.

elblanco 17y ago

Lots of CC programs are certificate or licensing programs designed to get people into a trade. Anything from electrician to nursing assistant. Those jobs pay far better than most unskilled labor jobs HS only grads are eligible for.