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Will the UK's gas holders be missed?
- teddyuk 12y agoYes, I will miss them they have always been there and now, nothing.
- CmonDev 12y agoAn office/block of flats will not keep people waiting. Can't see stars, can't see horizon.
- Latty 12y agoWhenever some new structure comes around, people complain and moan about noise, how they look, and generally take a 'not on my doorstep' attitude. Then, X years later, when they get taken away, people say they miss them.
- afandian 12y agoYes, that seems to be a fairly common human behaviour. One of many that may seem illogical. But since they are human behaviour, and we're humans not machines, we should work with it to maximise happiness rather than say "that's illogical we should stop".
- nextw33k 12y agoHuman nature is to reject change, we all trend towards the familiar. Those out liners that do reject change are usually hailed or hurt.
- jblok 12y agoHopefully it will be that way with wind turbines when they are replaced in decades to come with some unheard of power source.
- gabemart 12y agoIt's possible that the people who oppose these projects are not the same people who miss them when they're gone.
- Someone1234 12y agoI didn't hear anyone complain when the Tricorn Centre[0] was removed which was called "the 3rd ugliest building in the UK." Several UK prisons are literally more attractive than that place was... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricorn_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricorn_Centre
- youngtaff 12y agoI've always wondered about making a building that follows the same form and re-using the frame externally (though obviously not for structural support)
- alex_hitchins 12y agoSome of the frames are a real work of art. Shame it's all going to be scrapped. The Victorians put so much soul in to public utilities it seems a real shame to not recognise them for more than gas tanks.
- M2Ys4U 12y agoSome of the frames are Listed, so they should stay standing.
- noir_lord 12y agoThey absolutely did. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/The_Octagon,_Crossness_Pumping_Station.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/The_Octag... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossness_Pumping_Station http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossness_Pumping_Station They saw public works and modern engineering as a statement of intent about where we where going in the future and they took pleasure in making things beautiful even when it was hidden (indeed it was common for ladies and gentlemen to go on tours of civic works including sewage treatment plants). I think we could do with a little bit more of that attitude sometimes.
- nimbs 12y agoYou might want to google Gasometer, Vienna.
- andycroll 12y agohttp://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en/ http://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en/
- desas 12y agoIn Austria they built apartment complexes inside their considerably larger gas holders, see http://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en http://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en
- arethuza 12y agoI rather like the one in Granton Edinburgh: http://www.grantonhistory.org/industry/gas_works.htm http://www.grantonhistory.org/industry/gas_works.htm
- DanBC 12y agoThe train from Cheltenham to West Drayton used to travel past some light industrial sites. I strongly associate the smell of coffee[1], canals and car-scrapyards, and the gas-holder next to that line with visiting my parents when they lived outside London. There's a bunch of this functional stuff that just gets churned over. That's probably mostly good, but it'd be nice to keep a few of them around as examples. I think we (in the UK) can be dismissive of stuff that's only from the 1950s or 1920s because we have so much that is much much older. [1] The Nestle factory?
- parados 12y agoThe coffee smell is because of Heathrow. They do about one roast a week for all the onboard catering.
- Symbiote 12y agoNo, it was the Nestlé factory in Hayes (West London), although it's recently closed down. A train heading out of London to West Drayton would pass very close by. http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/nestl-factory-hayes-sold-up-8429836 http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/nestl-factory... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Nestle+UK+Ltd/@51.50038,-0.416659,15z/ https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Nestle+UK+Ltd/@51.50038,...
- joosters 12y agoThe caption of one of the photos - 'The pylon stays, the gas holder will go' - made me think: Will pylons ever go away? Is there any possible future tech out there that might make electricity pylons a thing of the past too?
- colinbartlett 12y agoOn premise solar maybe? Or at least reduce the necessity for so much transmission.
- swombat 12y agoSure, we just need decent local power generation. For example, if we can get each village or even block to have its own little nuclear plant, who needs pylons?
- arrrg 12y agoIt is possible to put that all underground, that's just extremely expensive. (That's currently a hotly debated topic in my region, since the new north-south connection in Germany is very controversial and underground transmission is sometimes brought up as a solution, though not really a realistic one.) I really don't know if underground transmission will ever be economical. In principle it's possible, though, if you want to spend the money.
- ptaipale 12y agoNot perhaps extremely expensive, but it may be more expensive than setting up pylons. But for instance when crossing waters, it is more practical to have an underwater cable than build pylons across sea.
- dmethvin 12y agoNot only expensive to run things underground, it introduces maintenance nightmares. Overhead lines can easily be inspected and even repaired while in service [1]. Underground lines cannot easily be inspected or repaired. Even when there are multiple lines, failures can overload the remaining lines as happened in Auckland [2]. If you want to get an idea of the hassle repairing an underground line is like, read this series of posts [3]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9oBEHRLqQ&hd=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9oBEHRLqQ&hd=1 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Auckland_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Auckland_power_crisis [3] http://www.jwz.org/blog/2002/11/engineering-pornography/ http://www.jwz.org/blog/2002/11/engineering-pornography/
- awjr 12y agoThey have just finally taken down the last one in Bath. This is a 'good' thing. What has to be realised is that the ones that are being taken down are usually in the heart of a city and take up valuable 'brownfield development land. The UK is suffering from a housing shortage in certain areas of the country and has very few options to expand housing stock that do not involve developing greenfield sites. I do wish they could have come up with a way to incorporate the existing structures into the new development but this would be perceived as a massive long term maintenance issue and probably not an optimum housing density. From a city point of view, 2000+ new homes vs three defunct gas holders is a no brainer in revenue generation (£4,000,000 per year in taxes). http://www.bathwesternriverside.com/overview/ http://www.bathwesternriverside.com/overview/
- DanBC 12y agoBut is there a shortage of brownfield land in most places? I guess Bath is different from most places.
- dazc 12y agoIn this case they are easier to redevelop compared to, say, an old industrial complex where land contamination may be an issue.
- spossy 12y agothe one in Dublin, Ireland, was converted to apartments http://armchairtravelogue.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/dublin-gasworks-apartments-alliance.html http://armchairtravelogue.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/dublin-gasw...
- masklinn 12y agoThere's also the Gasometers of Vienna which are gorgeous: http://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en http://www.wiener-gasometer.at/en Each gasometer was redesigned into a complete urban space by a different architect.
- feintruled 12y agoI heard this story on the radio first, which led to me being nonplussed when I later saw the pictures. Stories like this, and the current frenzy for listed buildings in the UK makes me feel there is a little too much respect afforded past architecture. Should we be keeping structures that aren't beautiful either by the standards of their time or ours, simply because it is old? Will we be eventually constrained in creating new styles, if we are stuck preserving past ones?
- Shivetya 12y agoWell an inventive architect could incorporate the theme of these into a new structure, if not actual pieces. I could see bringing some of the decorative structure for a large indoor area, or modeling the exterior on it. However similar sentiment can lead to stagnation as areas are not developed and instead become depressed from disuse. Now granted most of the push is likely coming from the lack of housing for the rich than trying to find new space for the poor
- bainsfather 12y agoHere is a converted one in Dublin [0] - I thought it looked very good when I visited it. [0] http://omparchitects.com/en/projects/the-gasworks/ http://omparchitects.com/en/projects/the-gasworks/
- furyg3 12y agoAnd here's one in Amsterdam: http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/clubs/photos/2012-04-08_awakenings_0919_photo-company.nl.jpg http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/clubs/photos/2012-04-0...
- justincormack 12y agoThey are extremely beautiful. At least the classic Victorian ones.
- DanBC 12y agoYou need to keep a couple of them. Hence the 1980s skate park that recently got Listed status. We built loads in the 1980s, then most of them closed and got demolished, leaving just a few remaining. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-29801513 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-29801513
- lmm 12y agoOh FFS. I bet these are the same people who are complaining about (much more elegant and beautiful IMO) wind turbines. These things were elegant engineering when they were doing something valuable, but it's the elegance of something functional - and they're not functional any more. They take up a lot of space that could be used productively. Good riddance.
- codeulike 12y agoI've always wondered how those things worked. They always seemed dangerous, like having an airship parked in the middle of a city.
- noir_lord 12y agoWalls are stronger than the roof and the gas isn't under particulary large pressures so mostly you'd have a big fireball.
- joars 12y agoI am trying to imagine a building sized cylinder appearing and dissapearing throughout the day in my neighbourhood, on a regular basis. Seems kind of cool to me.
- chrisb 12y agoI was wondering if these could be used to store hydrogen generated by solar water-splitting? Could the hydrogen be piped in place of natural gas? Or combined with natural gas? seemingly "town gas" was primarily hydrogen [1]. Or it could generate electricity via combustion or fuel cell, providing dispatchable renewable energy with grid-scale storage :) An averaged-size gas-holder has capacity of ~50,000 m^3 [2]. Gas holders store gas at essentially atmospheric pressure, so the stored hydrogen has an energy density of ~0.01 MJ/L [3] = ~10^7 J/m^3. So the gas-holder energy capacity is ~5*10^11 J = ~140 MWh In comparison Dinorwig pumped-storage power station in the UK has an energy capacity of ~9000 MWh [4] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas#Composition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas#Composition [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_holder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_holder [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density [4] http://www.withouthotair.com/c26/page_191.shtml http://www.withouthotair.com/c26/page_191.shtml
- awjr 12y agoThought storing Hydrogen was notoriously hard because it can penetrates rather effectively through pretty much anything.
- chrisb 12y agoI can't find a reference now, but as I understand it this isn't so much of an issue at low pressure. Apparently underground low pressure storage has been used successfully: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Underground_hydrogen_storage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage#Underground_hy...
- KaiserPro 12y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas Seemed to be not to hard with town gas (which was >50% hydrogen)
- ptaipale 12y agoHydrogen is explosive, corrosive, and it literally leaks through materials, unlike natural gas. Town gas may have had it as component but it sounds scary, unlike natural gas.
- optimusprinceps 12y agoI have one near my home, I always wondered what that thing was.
- cesarb 12y agoAnd on the other side of the ocean, a deactivated gasometer at Rio de Janeiro (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas%C3%B4metro_de_S%C3%A3o_Crist%C3%B3v%C3%A3o https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas%C3%B4metro_de_S%C3%A3o_Cri...) will also be replaced by residential and commercial buildings (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/terreno-do-gasometro-vai-ser-ocupado-por-predios-residenciais-comerciais-hoteis-shoppings-13627275 http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/terreno-do-gasometro-vai-ser-ocu...).
- fnordfnordfnord 12y agoGas holder time lapse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZpVojSJ09k&t=66 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZpVojSJ09k&t=66
- furyg3 12y agoIn Amsterdam one of these (and the very old industrial terrain around it) has been repurposed into public spaces. Concerts/Festivals are frequently held: http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/clubs/photos/2012-04-08_awakenings_0919_photo-company.nl.jpg http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/clubs/photos/2012-04-0...
- PhantomGremlin 12y agoThe US produces and consumes enormous amounts of natural gas. Demand peaks in winter, and there is need for seasonal storage, mostly underground.[1] The amount stored is far greater than what could be contained by gas holders. Gas holders used to dot the periphery of big cities in the US, and some probably still do. But there's actually a newer solution: LNG. This sounds expensive, because large amounts of energy are required to liquify the gas. But the 600:1 volume improvement makes it worthwhile. Two LNG tanks or 1200 gas holders? You decide! :) Of course, sometimes things go horribly wrong[2], which is how I first learned about LNG for "peakshaving"[3] purposes. [1] http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/storagebasics/storagebasics.html http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publicat... [2] http://www.kulr8.com/story/25118246/fire-and-explosion-at-natural-gas-plant-in-plymouth http://www.kulr8.com/story/25118246/fire-and-explosion-at-na... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lng#Small-scale_liquefaction_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lng#Small-scale_liquefaction_p...