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Here's why census data is relevant: If you receive an extended survey from the U.S. census, you are legally required to fill it out with all sorts of personal d

Here's why census data is relevant: If you receive an extended survey from the U.S. census, you are legally required to fill it out with all sorts of personal data. If you don't return it, a census rep will hound you until you do. The "Privacy Policy" for this data is on the U.S. Census website here: http://www.census.gov/about/policies/privacy/data_protection.html http://www.census.gov/about/policies/privacy/data_protection... Note the statement that "the statistics we release do not identify individuals or businesses". During the last census, it became pretty obvious that this would be an effective way for the U.S. Government to compel information from people who were suspected of something. Section 215 of the Patriot Act, after all, gives the government carte blanche to obtain any "tangible" thing. IMHO... the interesting questions to ask when this legal opinion is released are: 1. Was there ever any accuracy to the U.S. Census "Privacy Policy"? Were the privacy policies of the U.S. Census misrepresented to the public, and in particular to those who were required to complete an extended survey? 2. Does the legal opinion address the "third-party doctrine" when the information provided is provided under legal compulsion, and in particular with potential (if commonly unused) penalties for non-cooperation? A very interesting test case would be for someone to sue the government, in light of the upcoming 2020 census, to test the constitutionality of the criminal liability for not completing the extended survey in light of the government using the information provided for potential law enforcement purposes. It should be easier than usual to establish standing since anyone can be forced to complete one of these extended surveys.

orblivion 12y ago
> If you don't return it, a census rep will hound you until you do. In theory.
- jriordan 12y ago
  And very much in practice. Census reps -- all those temp workers that provide a reliable employment spike -- are instructed to pay multiple home visits to anyone who hasn't completed a questionnaire, extended survey or not. They are also instructed to remind holdouts of criminal liability for not responding. And they do! Also census reps must take an oath to not disclose individual information: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/oath_nondisclosure/ http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/oath_nondiscl... How this comports with Section 215 access to individual data will be interesting to see.
- mirimir 12y ago
  Do I have to respond to the American Community Survey (ACS)?[0] Yes. You are legally obligated to answer all the questions, as accurately as you can. The relevant laws are Title 18 U.S.C Section 3571[1] and Section 3559,[2] which amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221.[3] As I read that, it's an infraction, with a fine of not more than $5,000 and/or imprisonment of five days or less. [0] https://askacs.census.gov/faq.php?id=5000&faqId=7455 https://askacs.census.gov/faq.php?id=5000&faqId=7455 [1] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/html/USCODE-2010-title18-partII-chap227-subchapC-sec3571.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/html/USCODE... [2] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partII-chap227-subchapA-sec3559.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE... [3] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title13/html/USCODE-2011-title13-chap7-subchapII-sec221.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title13/html/USCODE...
  - brador 12y ago
    After the fine/imprisonment are you free to not do it or will they still come after you for the information!
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    I imagine such sanction would be easy enough to evade by questioning the jurisdiction, if you do not live in Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico, or on a military base, or work as a federal employee. But in order to question jurisdiction, you will likely have to do so pro se, without an attorney (who is an officer of the court). And U.S. Attorneys can be tenacious, if needed "pour encourager les autres", so it's usually a better idea all around to just avoid their attention altogether. The only question you really need to answer is the number of people domiciled at your mailing address on Census Day. I got the long form in 2010, and answered "four people live at this address" with no subsequent in-person harassment or prosecution. The person who eventually arrived at my door was unaware that census data were used to place Japanese-Americans into concentration camps during World War 2, and subsequently declined to ask me my race again, or any other questions. I didn't even get to bring up post-9/11 legislation. It turns out that the arguments I had planned on making back then were well-founded. I won't let it go to my head, on the off chance that I was checking a stopped clock at just the right time of day. If the temp employee persists, it might be useful to ask how many people have actually been fined, since 1970, under the laws they threaten you with. You should already know the answer, so that your questions will be rhetorical. It's zero. In the last five censuses, no one has been fined for failure to respond, even though 2-3% are prime candidates.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
mapt 12y ago
The federal laws regarding US Census privacy-breaching disclosures are stiff, being substantial felonies enshrined in statutory law, not just a nonbinding "policy" or an informally-binding "regulation" or a downright insulting backroom "interpretation". They may conflict with privileges people assume under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, but they were not repealed with the passage of the Patriot Act. They are explicitly and repetitively opposed to the contents of the Census surveys being used against the respondent in any law enforcement capacity. In a talk I attended, the ranking US official in charge of the Census at the time, Rebecca Blank, fielded questions incredulous of this point. The cost of being able to collect the data credibly is not being able to use it for any legal purpose in the context of the individual. Census officials, employees, or associates who cooperate with the NSA on breaching privacy need to go to prison under these provisions for them to mean anything; They have always pitted the Census against other agencies that would like to feast on that data. The laws are not required to protect against Amazon marketting, they are required to protect against the IRS, FBI, DEA, ICE, NSA, et al, and ensure that the Constitutional duty to enumerate the populace cannot be contravened by the respondent's fear of repression. Perhaps the Patriot Act immunizes the FBI from asking, but if it immunizes the Census Bureau from answering, we might as well not have a Census Bureau at all. An intelligence agency that keeps a list of demographic minorities for the purposes of spying & persecution is Holocaust-precursor-grade stuff, and something we have fought against for most of our existence since our inception as a country.
- sounds 12y ago
  I fortunately (or unfortunately) was the target of one of the "extended survey" forms in the last US Census. I ignored the mail. A Census worker came to my address and I would not let him in, multiple times (the first time, he was without any ID). Fortunately for me, there is a way for the Census worker to complete each blank on his form with "declines to answer" (he did it by pressing Shift-F11 if that helps you). Of course, that is at the whim of the Census Bureau, and is not the same as legal protection against Census surveys. In other words, I ultimately sat down with the Census worker and we went through the questions outside my address. I had him press Shift-F11 for each answer, he thanked me for my time, and that was that. It helps to be courteous and considerate (I offered him a cold drink). It probably made the difference in getting him to admit there was a Shift-F11 option.
asoplata 12y ago
Do they have the mathematical power to say it's unidentifying information? Is it just that that information, on its own, isn't identifying, or is the test that, with all the other information on the internet, it's still not identifying?
snissn 12y ago
Is your comment directly relevant to the posting or just tangentially?
Asparagirl 12y ago
There's a long-standing loophole in the census: there is no way they can make you reply to the questions accurately. Tens of thousands of women repeatedly lying about their age on census forms are an easy testament to that fact, several of them in my own family. And a long-form census form can be filled out by anyone in the household, not per-person. When I was in college, my off-campus house got the long-form for the 2000 Federal Census and God only knows what my roommate who got the mail that day wrote down for answers about the other three of us. Guess I'll find out details in 2072.

orblivion 12y ago

> If you don't return it, a census rep will hound you until you do. In theory.

jriordan 12y ago
And very much in practice. Census reps -- all those temp workers that provide a reliable employment spike -- are instructed to pay multiple home visits to anyone who hasn't completed a questionnaire, extended survey or not. They are also instructed to remind holdouts of criminal liability for not responding. And they do! Also census reps must take an oath to not disclose individual information: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/oath_nondisclosure/ http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/oath_nondiscl... How this comports with Section 215 access to individual data will be interesting to see.
mirimir 12y ago
Do I have to respond to the American Community Survey (ACS)?[0] Yes. You are legally obligated to answer all the questions, as accurately as you can. The relevant laws are Title 18 U.S.C Section 3571[1] and Section 3559,[2] which amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221.[3] As I read that, it's an infraction, with a fine of not more than $5,000 and/or imprisonment of five days or less. [0] https://askacs.census.gov/faq.php?id=5000&faqId=7455 https://askacs.census.gov/faq.php?id=5000&faqId=7455 [1] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/html/USCODE-2010-title18-partII-chap227-subchapC-sec3571.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title18/html/USCODE... [2] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partII-chap227-subchapA-sec3559.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE... [3] http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title13/html/USCODE-2011-title13-chap7-subchapII-sec221.htm http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title13/html/USCODE...
- brador 12y ago
  After the fine/imprisonment are you free to not do it or will they still come after you for the information!
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  I imagine such sanction would be easy enough to evade by questioning the jurisdiction, if you do not live in Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico, or on a military base, or work as a federal employee. But in order to question jurisdiction, you will likely have to do so pro se, without an attorney (who is an officer of the court). And U.S. Attorneys can be tenacious, if needed "pour encourager les autres", so it's usually a better idea all around to just avoid their attention altogether. The only question you really need to answer is the number of people domiciled at your mailing address on Census Day. I got the long form in 2010, and answered "four people live at this address" with no subsequent in-person harassment or prosecution. The person who eventually arrived at my door was unaware that census data were used to place Japanese-Americans into concentration camps during World War 2, and subsequently declined to ask me my race again, or any other questions. I didn't even get to bring up post-9/11 legislation. It turns out that the arguments I had planned on making back then were well-founded. I won't let it go to my head, on the off chance that I was checking a stopped clock at just the right time of day. If the temp employee persists, it might be useful to ask how many people have actually been fined, since 1970, under the laws they threaten you with. You should already know the answer, so that your questions will be rhetorical. It's zero. In the last five censuses, no one has been fined for failure to respond, even though 2-3% are prime candidates.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

mapt 12y ago

The federal laws regarding US Census privacy-breaching disclosures are stiff, being substantial felonies enshrined in statutory law, not just a nonbinding "policy" or an informally-binding "regulation" or a downright insulting backroom "interpretation". They may conflict with privileges people assume under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, but they were not repealed with the passage of the Patriot Act. They are explicitly and repetitively opposed to the contents of the Census surveys being used against the respondent in any law enforcement capacity. In a talk I attended, the ranking US official in charge of the Census at the time, Rebecca Blank, fielded questions incredulous of this point. The cost of being able to collect the data credibly is not being able to use it for any legal purpose in the context of the individual. Census officials, employees, or associates who cooperate with the NSA on breaching privacy need to go to prison under these provisions for them to mean anything; They have always pitted the Census against other agencies that would like to feast on that data. The laws are not required to protect against Amazon marketting, they are required to protect against the IRS, FBI, DEA, ICE, NSA, et al, and ensure that the Constitutional duty to enumerate the populace cannot be contravened by the respondent's fear of repression. Perhaps the Patriot Act immunizes the FBI from asking, but if it immunizes the Census Bureau from answering, we might as well not have a Census Bureau at all. An intelligence agency that keeps a list of demographic minorities for the purposes of spying & persecution is Holocaust-precursor-grade stuff, and something we have fought against for most of our existence since our inception as a country.

sounds 12y ago
I fortunately (or unfortunately) was the target of one of the "extended survey" forms in the last US Census. I ignored the mail. A Census worker came to my address and I would not let him in, multiple times (the first time, he was without any ID). Fortunately for me, there is a way for the Census worker to complete each blank on his form with "declines to answer" (he did it by pressing Shift-F11 if that helps you). Of course, that is at the whim of the Census Bureau, and is not the same as legal protection against Census surveys. In other words, I ultimately sat down with the Census worker and we went through the questions outside my address. I had him press Shift-F11 for each answer, he thanked me for my time, and that was that. It helps to be courteous and considerate (I offered him a cold drink). It probably made the difference in getting him to admit there was a Shift-F11 option.

asoplata 12y ago

Do they have the mathematical power to say it's unidentifying information? Is it just that that information, on its own, isn't identifying, or is the test that, with all the other information on the internet, it's still not identifying?

snissn 12y ago

Is your comment directly relevant to the posting or just tangentially?

Asparagirl 12y ago

There's a long-standing loophole in the census: there is no way they can make you reply to the questions accurately. Tens of thousands of women repeatedly lying about their age on census forms are an easy testament to that fact, several of them in my own family. And a long-form census form can be filled out by anyone in the household, not per-person. When I was in college, my off-campus house got the long-form for the 2000 Federal Census and God only knows what my roommate who got the mail that day wrote down for answers about the other three of us. Guess I'll find out details in 2072.