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I don't dispute that there was some collusion or collaboration, but at the same time, I don't condemn people on an incomplete pictures. Period. For all we know

I don't dispute that there was some collusion or collaboration, but at the same time, I don't condemn people on an incomplete pictures. Period. For all we know, PRISM was more-or-less a euphemism for "we had a shallow collaboration that we used to pivot into a larger compromise of their networks". Conversely, I'm going to have to agree with 'tptacek and his (probably not popular) opinion on Google and their influence on privacy and security at large. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8949256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8949256 So I stand by my decision to not condemn them until we learn more about the nature of their collaboration with the NSA's plot to deteriorate human rights the world over. Not because I love Google and think they can do no evil, but because I believe in charitable debate and skeptical inquiry.

Zigurd 12y ago
> I believe in charitable debate and skeptical inquiry. I believe in the odds. And the odds are that any technology that has a high potential to significantly add to surveillance capabilities has been exploited for that purpose either by hacking it or convincing (strong-arming if needed) the technology provider to cooperate. I don't deny that Google does a lot of great things in general, and in security research specifically. That would be denying the plain facts. But I also do not think that has any impact at all on the relationships the government builds with (or forces upon) large corporations regarding national security. When the chips are down, the NSA and other TLAs are going to get what they want. Now that tptacek is part of a larger transnational security company, he may find that out firsthand.
- tptacek 12y ago
  What exactly was it that you thought Matasano did, that the NSA might have ever leaned on them for anything? People on HN have historically had really weird ideas of how my work intersects with privacy. Matasano is a software engineering service.
  - Zigurd 12y ago
    Matatsano was probably too small. Didn't it get bought by a larger firm?
    - tptacek 12y ago
      You didn't answer my question. What exactly do you think it is NSA wants firms like Matasano to do? Stop being evasive. Say something specific, so we can actually address the innuendo. It seems much more likely that NSA would lean on your consulting practice: you build telephony and communications software. Obviously, I don't think NSA leans on companies like yours either.
      - Zigurd 12y ago
        I never mentioned Matadano. I specifically refered to the "larger transnational security company" that acquired Matasano. If that's not correct regarding Matasano, I'm sorry. But I'm not being evasive in any way. I'll let you know when I scale up to where I get a glimpse into the abyss.
        m0nastic 12y ago
        I ran the professional services division for one of the largest companies in the same space as Matasano. I'd love to hear what you think the NSA might have persuaded us to do?
        tptacek 12y ago
        I worked for the "multinational" for two years after the acquisition and I'm curious about NSA's evil influence too. Tell us more, Zigurd? Seriously: just a theory about what could have been happening would be great.
        Zigurd 12y ago
        Since your indignation is fully intact, "one of the largest companies..." would not be RSA, right?
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  Joke's on you: he left Matasano.

Zigurd 12y ago

> I believe in charitable debate and skeptical inquiry. I believe in the odds. And the odds are that any technology that has a high potential to significantly add to surveillance capabilities has been exploited for that purpose either by hacking it or convincing (strong-arming if needed) the technology provider to cooperate. I don't deny that Google does a lot of great things in general, and in security research specifically. That would be denying the plain facts. But I also do not think that has any impact at all on the relationships the government builds with (or forces upon) large corporations regarding national security. When the chips are down, the NSA and other TLAs are going to get what they want. Now that tptacek is part of a larger transnational security company, he may find that out firsthand.

tptacek 12y ago
What exactly was it that you thought Matasano did, that the NSA might have ever leaned on them for anything? People on HN have historically had really weird ideas of how my work intersects with privacy. Matasano is a software engineering service.
- Zigurd 12y ago
  Matatsano was probably too small. Didn't it get bought by a larger firm?
  - tptacek 12y ago
    You didn't answer my question. What exactly do you think it is NSA wants firms like Matasano to do? Stop being evasive. Say something specific, so we can actually address the innuendo. It seems much more likely that NSA would lean on your consulting practice: you build telephony and communications software. Obviously, I don't think NSA leans on companies like yours either.
    - Zigurd 12y ago
      I never mentioned Matadano. I specifically refered to the "larger transnational security company" that acquired Matasano. If that's not correct regarding Matasano, I'm sorry. But I'm not being evasive in any way. I'll let you know when I scale up to where I get a glimpse into the abyss.
      - m0nastic 12y ago
        I ran the professional services division for one of the largest companies in the same space as Matasano. I'd love to hear what you think the NSA might have persuaded us to do?
        tptacek 12y ago
        I worked for the "multinational" for two years after the acquisition and I'm curious about NSA's evil influence too. Tell us more, Zigurd? Seriously: just a theory about what could have been happening would be great.
        Zigurd 12y ago
        Since your indignation is fully intact, "one of the largest companies..." would not be RSA, right?
sarciszewski 12y ago
Joke's on you: he left Matasano.