4 ms·

If the PS4 really runs FreeBSD, wouldn't it be possible to provide a compatible userspace on real FreeBSD/maybe even Linux and run PS4 binaries on a PC?

sitharus 12y ago
You'd need to reverse-engineer the PS4 libraries. I have no idea what libraries Sony provide for the PS4, but I'd assume the UI, audio and graphics libraries are all custom. There's also probably some sort of DRM library required to load games off disk.
- sigjuice 12y ago
  Some of these custom libraries are mentioned here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software The PlayStation 4 features two graphics APIs, a low level API named GNM and a high level API named GNMX. Sony's own PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) was introduced on the PlayStation 4
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  >There's also probably some sort of DRM library required to load games off disk. Download only games have existed since the PS3/360 days.
eropple 12y ago
Unlikely. Game developers make assumptions based on the consistent hardware; it's a lot of why they can eke competitive performance out of old hardware. You might eventually, with much work and thrashing, get something to start, but that doesn't mean that all of the little tweaks and tricks based on the PS4's hardware itself are going work on your PC. "It's all x86" doesn't take into account the unified memory architecture between CPU and GPU, for example.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  We're getting HUMA soon (or we already have it, I forget) on PCs. But there are still going to be important differences vs. the consoles. We use DDR3, the PS4 uses GDDR5 (yes, for system memory). The Xbox One SoC has eDRAM. Edit: looks like hUMA is out in the PC wild http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/amds-heterogeneous-uniform-memory-access-coming-this-year-in-kaveri/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/amds-h...
  - eropple 12y ago
    Interesting, didn't realize hUMA was coming to PCs. Thanks. The GDDR5 behavior is a much bigger hurdle than I think most people realize.
danudey 12y ago
It doesn't run on FreeBSD, its kernel is based off FreeBSD. Really it just saves them having to re-implement TCP/IP, VFS, etc. The userland is all entirely different. It also uses different (custom) hardware and makes assumptions about it; no OpenGL/DirectX layer of abstraction, for example, since the hardware is fixed for the next 10 years your API call doesn't have to do different things on different hardware. You'd have to provide abstractions for all of that. Likewise for the CPU; it's possible there are CPU/GPU extensions in the PS4 that don't exist in standard commercial hardware. On top of all that, the binaries are all signed/encrypted, so without the ability to decrypt them it doesn't do us much good.
danudey 12y ago
It doesn't run on FreeBSD, its kernel is based off FreeBSD. Really it just saves them having to re-implement TCP/IP, VFS, etc. The userland is all entirely different. It also uses different (custom) hardware and makes assumptions about it; no OpenGL/DirectX layer of abstraction, for example, since the hardware is fixed for the next 10 years your API call doesn't have to do different things on different hardware. You'd have to provide abstractions for all of that. Likewise for the CPU; it's possible there are CPU/GPU extensions in the PS4 that don't exist in standard commercial hardware. On top of all that, the binaries are all signed/encrypted, so without the ability to decrypt them it doesn't do us much good.

sitharus 12y ago

You'd need to reverse-engineer the PS4 libraries. I have no idea what libraries Sony provide for the PS4, but I'd assume the UI, audio and graphics libraries are all custom. There's also probably some sort of DRM library required to load games off disk.

sigjuice 12y ago
Some of these custom libraries are mentioned here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software The PlayStation 4 features two graphics APIs, a low level API named GNM and a high level API named GNMX. Sony's own PlayStation Shader Language (PSSL) was introduced on the PlayStation 4
Igglyboo 12y ago
>There's also probably some sort of DRM library required to load games off disk. Download only games have existed since the PS3/360 days.

eropple 12y ago

Unlikely. Game developers make assumptions based on the consistent hardware; it's a lot of why they can eke competitive performance out of old hardware. You might eventually, with much work and thrashing, get something to start, but that doesn't mean that all of the little tweaks and tricks based on the PS4's hardware itself are going work on your PC. "It's all x86" doesn't take into account the unified memory architecture between CPU and GPU, for example.

sliverstorm 12y ago
We're getting HUMA soon (or we already have it, I forget) on PCs. But there are still going to be important differences vs. the consoles. We use DDR3, the PS4 uses GDDR5 (yes, for system memory). The Xbox One SoC has eDRAM. Edit: looks like hUMA is out in the PC wild http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/amds-heterogeneous-uniform-memory-access-coming-this-year-in-kaveri/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/amds-h...
- eropple 12y ago
  Interesting, didn't realize hUMA was coming to PCs. Thanks. The GDDR5 behavior is a much bigger hurdle than I think most people realize.

danudey 12y ago

It doesn't run on FreeBSD, its kernel is based off FreeBSD. Really it just saves them having to re-implement TCP/IP, VFS, etc. The userland is all entirely different. It also uses different (custom) hardware and makes assumptions about it; no OpenGL/DirectX layer of abstraction, for example, since the hardware is fixed for the next 10 years your API call doesn't have to do different things on different hardware. You'd have to provide abstractions for all of that. Likewise for the CPU; it's possible there are CPU/GPU extensions in the PS4 that don't exist in standard commercial hardware. On top of all that, the binaries are all signed/encrypted, so without the ability to decrypt them it doesn't do us much good.

danudey 12y ago