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The media is filtering out the logic from this debate. I would have hoped HN would be more informed. Its well established that no vaccine has an effect that la
by agentsmith 12y ago
The media is filtering out the logic from this debate. I would have hoped HN would be more informed.
Its well established that no vaccine has an effect that lasts longer than seven years. This is the reason for booster shots. Every vaccine researcher and pharma company will tell you this.
The reason we immunize children is because their hygiene practices are poorer than most adults and they are a marginalized class. They get more diseases due to poor hygiene which encourages adults to look for easy solutions. And adults are in a position to force those solutions on the powerless.
Adults do not immunize themselves every seven years because the risk/reward profile simply isn't worth it. Every shot, vaccine or not, is a risk. On the other hand, adult-quality hygiene and typical first world nutrition cause people to avoid dying from diseases already. For a recent example look at Ebola. Many people simply can't get it because they are too healthy. This is why ebola never went anywhere in the USA and many other countries.
Adults with poor hygiene that get more diseases are ignored because they are a smaller group and in a position to resist so they are not worth targeting.
Most people aren't aware that the USA stayed polio-free for many years while a live attenuated virus was given to children. It was known by pharma companies that the live attenuated virus would become a full strength virus in the child's stool. Look it up, I remember at least one American woman catching it from changing a diaper and it was in the news. Now we use dead virus because of people like her. But the larger point is that for many many hundreds of thousands of diaper changes, there just wasn't a problem. Other countries with the live vaccine had lots of problems. What was the difference? Hygiene and nutrition.
Vaccines are a great tool. Like any tool they should be voluntary. People who choose not to use them are not a problem because if they were then every adult who hasn't had a vaccine in seven years is also a problem so the blame should be pretty thin.
And finally, please note that no one died and many were hospitalized for precaution, not an actual need. Healthy, first world people die from measles at an extremely small rate. I know it doesn't sell newspapers or get people to read your blog but this was not a deadly epidemic. All of the angry rhetoric around this event could have been avoided if people were informed ahead of time that there would be no deaths in otherwise health people. Meanwhile, heart disease is a deadly epidemic and there is no vaccine for that.
- mikeash 12y agoGot a cite for that "seven years" figure? According to this web page, lots of vaccines last more than 7 years, with some lasting for life: http://www.traveldoctor.co.nz/vaccinations.aspx http://www.traveldoctor.co.nz/vaccinations.aspx Of those that don't last for life, adults do get booster shots. I don't know why you think they don't. I get a flu shot every year and I get boosters for other diseases every so often when I have a physical. I don't immunize my child because she's marginalized and powerless to resist. I do it because it's a cheap, easy, and safe way to reduce her chances of discomfort, disability, and death. Her mother and I often try to get our vaccinations at the same time she does so we can show her that she's not alone.
- chatwinra 12y agoIt's great to see people asking for citations. I just wish that sort of mentality existed in the everyday world. At the moment newspaper articles, tv news reports, etc can all get away with discussing science (and science-related topics) with citing ANYTHING. I'm not saying it'll solve the vaccine crisis, but in the long run, I think the key is getting citations for statements of facts into public discourse. (then you have to worry about the quality of the stuff cited, but that can be the next step).
- mikeash 12y agoI don't know, reflexively asking for a cite for a claim you disagree with is really easy, and just one small step above saying "no it's not." It can be good, but asking for a cite is often a more friendly way to say "you're full of it."
- Marazan 12y agoWhere on earth do you get the notion that no vaccine lasts longer than 7 years? Also, how does one get the power to down vote.
- agentsmith 12y agoSecond paragraph, booster shots. Also, that CDC link is not based on science. More a combination of marketing and the effects of hygiene and nutrition. Same for the immune.org link. just vote everyone else up. same effect.