4 ms·

How is it the fault of the "patriarchy" that shy nerds asking out cheerleaders tends not to go well? This makes it sound like a conspiracy.

vinceguidry 12y ago
So, sexism cuts all the way down to the bone of our daily interpersonal interactions. It creates the whole jock / nerd divide. It creates the difference between the hot cheerleaders and the normal girls. What does this is gender roles and their consequent beauty norms. People decide that women are best off looking fit and have big boobs and are outgoing and have a certain personality. These norms are communicated to them all throughout their childhood through media and peer pressure. In exactly the same way, ideals create the jock as well. When you actually look at the people embodying these stereotypes, there's nothing all that much different about them, they're just people who've managed to adopt these norms. They might even be meaner than normal, enforcing these roles themselves. Gender roles, beauty norms are part of the culture that feminists call patriarchy. Patriarchy is just sexism at the social / cultural scale. They wouldn't exist without these broader cultural dynamics, people would just be people and you could ask out whoever you want and she wouldn't shut you down because she has a place to maintain in the hierarchy, a hierarchy created and maintained by sexism. Once you realize that women perpetuate patriarchy too and how, that's when you start to really understand just what it is. If you need an analogy, think about how the general lack of respect for privacy at both the individual and the legislative levels negatively affects all of us, even those who 'have nothing to hide'.
- theorique 12y ago
  So, sexism cuts all the way down to the bone of our daily interpersonal interactions. It creates the whole jock / nerd divide. It creates the difference between the hot cheerleaders and the normal girls. I'm not really clear on how such divisions emerges from sexism. At its root, it seems to come from primate status competition, within separate groups that happen to be divided out by sex. Among the boys, the jocks are those who prioritize sports and physical achievement, while the nerds are those who prioritize academics and mental achievement. This divide persists even in the absence of females - for example, all-boys schools still have aggressive athletes and quiet, bookish introverts, regardless of the presence or absence of the opposite sex. If anything, the thing you're describing as patriarchy and/or sexism is the effect, rather than the cause.
  - vinceguidry 12y ago
    Yes, patriarchy / sexism has deep biological roots, also encompassing other divides like introversion / extroversion. Other social divides like class are involved too, all of these things with their own biological underpinnings. This stuff is messy. At some point, trying to tease out the exact evolutionary roots becomes an exercise in intellectual masturbation. We have the ability to change them now, so we should, because everybody's lives are being made worse for them.

vinceguidry 12y ago

So, sexism cuts all the way down to the bone of our daily interpersonal interactions. It creates the whole jock / nerd divide. It creates the difference between the hot cheerleaders and the normal girls. What does this is gender roles and their consequent beauty norms. People decide that women are best off looking fit and have big boobs and are outgoing and have a certain personality. These norms are communicated to them all throughout their childhood through media and peer pressure. In exactly the same way, ideals create the jock as well. When you actually look at the people embodying these stereotypes, there's nothing all that much different about them, they're just people who've managed to adopt these norms. They might even be meaner than normal, enforcing these roles themselves. Gender roles, beauty norms are part of the culture that feminists call patriarchy. Patriarchy is just sexism at the social / cultural scale. They wouldn't exist without these broader cultural dynamics, people would just be people and you could ask out whoever you want and she wouldn't shut you down because she has a place to maintain in the hierarchy, a hierarchy created and maintained by sexism. Once you realize that women perpetuate patriarchy too and how, that's when you start to really understand just what it is. If you need an analogy, think about how the general lack of respect for privacy at both the individual and the legislative levels negatively affects all of us, even those who 'have nothing to hide'.

theorique 12y ago
So, sexism cuts all the way down to the bone of our daily interpersonal interactions. It creates the whole jock / nerd divide. It creates the difference between the hot cheerleaders and the normal girls. I'm not really clear on how such divisions emerges from sexism. At its root, it seems to come from primate status competition, within separate groups that happen to be divided out by sex. Among the boys, the jocks are those who prioritize sports and physical achievement, while the nerds are those who prioritize academics and mental achievement. This divide persists even in the absence of females - for example, all-boys schools still have aggressive athletes and quiet, bookish introverts, regardless of the presence or absence of the opposite sex. If anything, the thing you're describing as patriarchy and/or sexism is the effect, rather than the cause.
- vinceguidry 12y ago
  Yes, patriarchy / sexism has deep biological roots, also encompassing other divides like introversion / extroversion. Other social divides like class are involved too, all of these things with their own biological underpinnings. This stuff is messy. At some point, trying to tease out the exact evolutionary roots becomes an exercise in intellectual masturbation. We have the ability to change them now, so we should, because everybody's lives are being made worse for them.