4 ms·

As a Massachusetts resident, this brings the question of "two-party consent" to the forefront for me. There are many times I would like to record conversations,

As a Massachusetts resident, this brings the question of "two-party consent" to the forefront for me. There are many times I would like to record conversations, but cannot legally do so. Who does two-party consent benefit more, the large corporations or the individual's right to privacy? Or is it not black and white?

dhimes 12y ago
I hate that law. It makes me think that some politician got caught talking about something immoral or illegal and sought to make phone conversations "safer." It certainly doesn't help, for example, a victim of domestic violence who receives threatening phone calls. He/she has to go to the authorities and receive permission. On the other hand, in a conversation with like this with a corporation she could simply announce that she is recording it. Corporations do it all the time, in part at least to help train their customer service. And if the corp decides they don't want to have the conversation on the record, then they don't get to have the conversation at all. In other words, you say, "I am recording this conversation" rather than asking, "Is it ok if I record this conversation?"
- ctdonath 12y ago
  Someone solved this once by configuring a voice menu to answer & direct the call (to the single phone): started with the heard-so-often-everyone-ignores-it line "this call may be monitored or recorded for _______ purposes; please press 1 for ..." and the sting subject fell for it when calling. Notification of recording made, implicit permission granted for continuing the conversation.
- jeffreyrogers 12y ago
  > In other words, you say, "I am recording this conversation" rather than asking, "Is it ok if I record this conversation?" I'm not sure that is legal. I've had a few job interviews that were recorded, and in all of them I was told I needed to consent to being recorded on tape. So basically the interviewer would say, "are you okay with me recording this conversation?" and then I would say, "yes, that's fine."
  - dangerlibrary 12y ago
    I think one has a strong implied consent argument if the other party keeps talking after recording has been announced.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    > I'm not sure that is legal. I'm pretty sure it is, considering the number of companies who have a "This call may be recorded" warning as part of the phone tree.
- pavel_lishin 12y ago
  > And if the corp decides they don't want to have the conversation on the record, then they don't get to have the conversation at all. I think a problem with this approach is that in most cases, the individual loses more by not having the conversation than the corporation does.
mistermann 12y ago
"However, Keating appears to have kept verbatim notes – strongly indicating that a tape was running" Is the act of recording illegal, or just sharing the recording?
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  Wiki indicates it's the act itself, even if unshared. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United...
- smackfu 12y ago
  BTW, she says she took notes with shorthand, so recording laws don't apply.
  - pjc50 12y ago
    Big win for an old technology there. Are there any text entry UIs that can keep up with a trained shorthand writer?
    - jonas21 12y ago
      The stenotype (used by court reporters and closed captioning people)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype
    - lmm 12y ago
      My PDA back in ~2005 supported shorthand input. I'd be disappointed if there wasn't someone selling it as an input method for android.
    - dkbrk 12y ago
      A stenography keyboard can be even faster: http://stenoboard.com/ http://stenoboard.com/
mikeash 12y ago
Are you sure you can't record them? All you have to do is tell them that you're recording. Then they can either take it or leave it. I'm not sure how many people will hang up on you if you say that, but it's worth a try. Also, as I understand it, if you call in to a place that has a notice that they're recording you (i.e. the ubiquitous "this call may be recorded or monitored for quality or training purposes") that also suffices as permission for you to record them. (Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, yada yada.)

dhimes 12y ago

I hate that law. It makes me think that some politician got caught talking about something immoral or illegal and sought to make phone conversations "safer." It certainly doesn't help, for example, a victim of domestic violence who receives threatening phone calls. He/she has to go to the authorities and receive permission. On the other hand, in a conversation with like this with a corporation she could simply announce that she is recording it. Corporations do it all the time, in part at least to help train their customer service. And if the corp decides they don't want to have the conversation on the record, then they don't get to have the conversation at all. In other words, you say, "I am recording this conversation" rather than asking, "Is it ok if I record this conversation?"

ctdonath 12y ago
Someone solved this once by configuring a voice menu to answer & direct the call (to the single phone): started with the heard-so-often-everyone-ignores-it line "this call may be monitored or recorded for _______ purposes; please press 1 for ..." and the sting subject fell for it when calling. Notification of recording made, implicit permission granted for continuing the conversation.
jeffreyrogers 12y ago
> In other words, you say, "I am recording this conversation" rather than asking, "Is it ok if I record this conversation?" I'm not sure that is legal. I've had a few job interviews that were recorded, and in all of them I was told I needed to consent to being recorded on tape. So basically the interviewer would say, "are you okay with me recording this conversation?" and then I would say, "yes, that's fine."
- dangerlibrary 12y ago
  I think one has a strong implied consent argument if the other party keeps talking after recording has been announced.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  > I'm not sure that is legal. I'm pretty sure it is, considering the number of companies who have a "This call may be recorded" warning as part of the phone tree.
pavel_lishin 12y ago
> And if the corp decides they don't want to have the conversation on the record, then they don't get to have the conversation at all. I think a problem with this approach is that in most cases, the individual loses more by not having the conversation than the corporation does.

mistermann 12y ago

"However, Keating appears to have kept verbatim notes – strongly indicating that a tape was running" Is the act of recording illegal, or just sharing the recording?

ceejayoz 12y ago
Wiki indicates it's the act itself, even if unshared. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#United...
smackfu 12y ago
BTW, she says she took notes with shorthand, so recording laws don't apply.
- pjc50 12y ago
  Big win for an old technology there. Are there any text entry UIs that can keep up with a trained shorthand writer?
  - jonas21 12y ago
    The stenotype (used by court reporters and closed captioning people)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype
  - lmm 12y ago
    My PDA back in ~2005 supported shorthand input. I'd be disappointed if there wasn't someone selling it as an input method for android.
  - dkbrk 12y ago
    A stenography keyboard can be even faster: http://stenoboard.com/ http://stenoboard.com/

mikeash 12y ago

Are you sure you can't record them? All you have to do is tell them that you're recording. Then they can either take it or leave it. I'm not sure how many people will hang up on you if you say that, but it's worth a try. Also, as I understand it, if you call in to a place that has a notice that they're recording you (i.e. the ubiquitous "this call may be recorded or monitored for quality or training purposes") that also suffices as permission for you to record them. (Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, yada yada.)