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Wow! Those screen readers are fast (his example https://soundcloud.com/freecodecamp https://soundcloud.com/freecodecamp)! I barely understood a word. I didn't k

by Kenji 12y ago

Wow! Those screen readers are fast (his example https://soundcloud.com/freecodecamp https://soundcloud.com/freecodecamp)! I barely understood a word. I didn't know that. It's a shame that so many programs don't follow the accessibility guidelines, but it's just too damn easy to forget about the disabled if you aren't. But this article was an eye-opener for me (no pun intended).

smoyer 12y ago
I'm installing a screen-reader today ... and I'm going to listen to everything I create on it (at a slower speed - at least to start). We have stringent accessibility guidelines, tools to help find accessibility problems and a person in charge of making sure we adhere to those principles, but wouldn't it be more real to close your eyes and experience your creation yourself?
- bphogan 12y ago
  Thank you for doing this. And for saying this.
trishume 12y ago
Indeed, I used NVDA for a while when I was working on accessibility for a web app and after a week I could turn it up pretty fast, but nowhere near that fast. (I'm not blind)
fiatjaf 12y ago
SoundCloud is evil and started playing bad songs right after this audio stopped.
- hueving 12y ago
  Yeah, shocking after turning up the volume a bunch to hear the screenreader.
- FreeFull 12y ago
  I have no idea if there is a way to stop it from doing that either
superobserver 12y ago
Since he has a whole occipital lobe to devote to parsing that, I don't feel so bad that my auditory processing isn't quite up to snuff. Reminds me of speed reading, though. What is the wpm on that? Maybe I'll ask him on freenode.
- superobserver 12y ago
  He informed me the clip is 525WPM. Impressive!
- malnourish 12y ago
  Is there evidence to suggest that a brain is that plastic? Genuinely curious. I feel like the "blind people have super-powered other senses" is an urban legend, like the 10% of your brain misconception.
  - DennisP 12y ago
    The brain seems to be pretty darn plastic. There have been experiments with giving people whole new sensory inputs, and finding that the brain adapted to them quite well. Two examples: - A grid of electrodes on the tongue, activating with a pattern fed from a camera. After a while, blind experimental subjects reported actually seeing what the grid displayed. - A belt of buzzers hooked to a compass. The buzzer closest to magnetic north was always active. After a couple months, subjects weren't really conscious of the buzzing, but got a really good mental map of their environment and their position in it. They could navigate unfamiliar environments much better than before...and then much worse, when the experiment ended. There are also some well-known cases of blind people using echolocation pretty effectively, without any special hardware. Don't have links handy, unfortunately.
    - iamthepieman 12y ago
      This American Life did an episode recently on Daniel Kish, one of the most famous echo location practitioners[0] and here's a short youtube video of the same guy.[1] [0]http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/544/batman http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/544/b... [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8lztr1tu4o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8lztr1tu4o
arb99 12y ago
I actually thought it was a corrupt file or something - it doesn't sound like anything I'd be able to pick out and understand. If someone can understand at that speed, listening to audiobooks must be a very quick activity...
- azatris 12y ago
  That's a very interesting point! I would consider that a superpower. Would this also imply that humans are capabable of way more than one would normally think, given proper training?
  - Retra 12y ago
    It's just skimming. If you were reading a book, you would just scan across it to find what you want. You don't have to read everything on the page to know what it is talking about.
    - zersiax 12y ago
      I would not say that. When you are skimming, you actually skip parts of the text. Since an audible text is a constant stream of data, just skipping parts would make it incomprehensible
      - walterbell 12y ago
        In speed reading, you can read sentences backwards and the brain will reorder them in real time. You can learn to decouple image (symbol/word) acquisition from comprehension. Step one om this path is to stop subvocalization, saying words out loud in your head. It's the same difference between Sync (O_DIRECT) and Async disk writes.
        erikano 12y ago
        >Step one om this path is to stop subvocalization, saying words out loud in your head. I've heard people say that before but I still don't understand how to do it.
jacinda 12y ago
I would compare this to using something like Spritz (http://www.spritzinc.com/ http://www.spritzinc.com/) for a sighted person. At first the higher speeds feel too fast but your brain quickly adapts, especially with daily practice. Given that he's used a screen-reader his entire life when dealing with computers, I'm sure his brain has deeply entrenched pathways for parsing audio like this. I found that it was easier to catch a few words from that file when I closed my eyes to shut out other distractions. I still couldn't understand much, but I could see how there would be a progression to build to that level.
steveax 12y ago
Good introduction to screen readers from Victor Tsaran of Yahoo [1] also shows his normal speed for browsing. [1] http://yuiblog.com/blog/2007/05/14/video-intro-to-screenreaders/ http://yuiblog.com/blog/2007/05/14/video-intro-to-screenread...
franklinho 12y ago
No kidding. The speed of that is incredible.

by Kenji 12y ago

smoyer 12y ago

I'm installing a screen-reader today ... and I'm going to listen to everything I create on it (at a slower speed - at least to start). We have stringent accessibility guidelines, tools to help find accessibility problems and a person in charge of making sure we adhere to those principles, but wouldn't it be more real to close your eyes and experience your creation yourself?

bphogan 12y ago
Thank you for doing this. And for saying this.

trishume 12y ago

Indeed, I used NVDA for a while when I was working on accessibility for a web app and after a week I could turn it up pretty fast, but nowhere near that fast. (I'm not blind)

fiatjaf 12y ago

SoundCloud is evil and started playing bad songs right after this audio stopped.

hueving 12y ago
Yeah, shocking after turning up the volume a bunch to hear the screenreader.
FreeFull 12y ago
I have no idea if there is a way to stop it from doing that either

superobserver 12y ago

Since he has a whole occipital lobe to devote to parsing that, I don't feel so bad that my auditory processing isn't quite up to snuff. Reminds me of speed reading, though. What is the wpm on that? Maybe I'll ask him on freenode.

superobserver 12y ago
He informed me the clip is 525WPM. Impressive!
malnourish 12y ago
Is there evidence to suggest that a brain is that plastic? Genuinely curious. I feel like the "blind people have super-powered other senses" is an urban legend, like the 10% of your brain misconception.
- DennisP 12y ago
  The brain seems to be pretty darn plastic. There have been experiments with giving people whole new sensory inputs, and finding that the brain adapted to them quite well. Two examples: - A grid of electrodes on the tongue, activating with a pattern fed from a camera. After a while, blind experimental subjects reported actually seeing what the grid displayed. - A belt of buzzers hooked to a compass. The buzzer closest to magnetic north was always active. After a couple months, subjects weren't really conscious of the buzzing, but got a really good mental map of their environment and their position in it. They could navigate unfamiliar environments much better than before...and then much worse, when the experiment ended. There are also some well-known cases of blind people using echolocation pretty effectively, without any special hardware. Don't have links handy, unfortunately.
  - iamthepieman 12y ago
    This American Life did an episode recently on Daniel Kish, one of the most famous echo location practitioners[0] and here's a short youtube video of the same guy.[1] [0]http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/544/batman http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/544/b... [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8lztr1tu4o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8lztr1tu4o

arb99 12y ago

I actually thought it was a corrupt file or something - it doesn't sound like anything I'd be able to pick out and understand. If someone can understand at that speed, listening to audiobooks must be a very quick activity...

azatris 12y ago
That's a very interesting point! I would consider that a superpower. Would this also imply that humans are capabable of way more than one would normally think, given proper training?
- Retra 12y ago
  It's just skimming. If you were reading a book, you would just scan across it to find what you want. You don't have to read everything on the page to know what it is talking about.
  - zersiax 12y ago
    I would not say that. When you are skimming, you actually skip parts of the text. Since an audible text is a constant stream of data, just skipping parts would make it incomprehensible
    - walterbell 12y ago
      In speed reading, you can read sentences backwards and the brain will reorder them in real time. You can learn to decouple image (symbol/word) acquisition from comprehension. Step one om this path is to stop subvocalization, saying words out loud in your head. It's the same difference between Sync (O_DIRECT) and Async disk writes.
      - erikano 12y ago
        >Step one om this path is to stop subvocalization, saying words out loud in your head. I've heard people say that before but I still don't understand how to do it.

jacinda 12y ago

I would compare this to using something like Spritz (http://www.spritzinc.com/ http://www.spritzinc.com/) for a sighted person. At first the higher speeds feel too fast but your brain quickly adapts, especially with daily practice. Given that he's used a screen-reader his entire life when dealing with computers, I'm sure his brain has deeply entrenched pathways for parsing audio like this. I found that it was easier to catch a few words from that file when I closed my eyes to shut out other distractions. I still couldn't understand much, but I could see how there would be a progression to build to that level.

steveax 12y ago

Good introduction to screen readers from Victor Tsaran of Yahoo [1] also shows his normal speed for browsing. [1] http://yuiblog.com/blog/2007/05/14/video-intro-to-screenreaders/ http://yuiblog.com/blog/2007/05/14/video-intro-to-screenread...

franklinho 12y ago

No kidding. The speed of that is incredible.