7 ms·

Please. 1. dictator Putin is de facto ruler of Russia since 2000. He changed consitution to allow him to still be in power. He shut down free press, introduce

by ajuc 12y ago

Please. 1. dictator Putin is de facto ruler of Russia since 2000. He changed consitution to allow him to still be in power. He shut down free press, introduced laws persecuting minorities (homosexuals for example), was involved in election falsification. 2. evil Putin annexed part of Ukraine (Crimea), his army is occupying other parts of it (Lughansk and Donetsk) and invading further west. Russian army is also in parts of Moldova and Georgia against their will. The fact that Americans aren't always the good guys change nothing. I can show you many bad guys, this doesn't mean we should stop naming them. The fact that he has huge support in Russia also change nothing - Hitler had huge support too (especially after sucessfull campaigns). Putin is evil dictator and should be stopped.

osipov 12y ago
Keep mindlessly repeating the propaganda you are getting from your Polish media! It is almost as bad as the crap they are feeding Ukrainians.
- vixen99 12y ago
  He at least provides a few facts. Where are yours?
  - osipov 12y ago
    It will be pointless for me to even try to argue facts for the following reasons. The subject we are debating is something that neither you or I know about first hand. Our entire basis for the discussion is based on reports of the subject through the media lens. Not sure about you but I'm monitoring media from both the Western and the Russian civilizations and there is no away that we can agree on the necessary facts if you are getting your opinions from just one source. The facts that we can agree on are probably trivial or have a conflicting interpretations. What do you think?
  - osipov 12y ago
    Here some facts from a source that you'll deem Russian propaganda: http://uk.sputniknews.com/opinion/20150128/1013394849.html http://uk.sputniknews.com/opinion/20150128/1013394849.html
- ajuc 12y ago
  I don't follow Polish media. I mostly read stuff on skyscrappercity and reddit. Anyway, which part wasn't true?
osipov 12y ago
>The fact that Americans aren't always the good guys change nothing. I can show you many bad guys, this doesn't mean we should stop naming them. The issue is that you are applying your moral outrage selectively, against Putin but not against Obama, although Obama is objectively and provably committing atrocities above and beyond what Putin is doing. But Putin is the one getting all the bad rep from your media and you are content to uncritically recite their propaganda. Your selective moral outrage is as bad as French using laws that restrict free speech directed against Jews but not against Muslims.
- ajuc 12y ago
  So unless I criticize all the bad people on Earth I can't criticize anyone?
  - osipov 12y ago
    I'd rather you be measured and balanced in your criticism.
    - ajuc 12y ago
      I am. When there was ACTA/SOPA debacle going on I criticized USA quite heavily for bullying small countries (including my country) to sign them. I even was on a street protest against it in my city [1]. the difference is - when USA bullies somebody to do sth it doesn't invade when they don't agree :) ACTA wasn't signed and no American invasion in sight. Anyway, to require people to criticize equaly or not at all is just dumb. Different people are intersted in different things, and it's OK. Just say "OK, Russia is bully there, but I don't care". Instead you try to defend such behaviour by showing that others do the same - not gonna work. This is just distraction debating tactic by you and you know it. [1] here you can see photos BTW https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajuc00/sets/72157629041344779/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajuc00/sets/72157629041344779/
- tr352 12y ago
  Putin with his actions has brought a nasty war to the doorstep of the western world. His actions are perceived (both in the US and EU) as harmful to the stability and peace in the western world. A stability and peace that took huge amounts of effort and time to be built. Putins actions are believed to go against every principle on which this stability is based: democracy, cooperation, no redrawing of maps (especially not without consensus), no raking up of old claims and disputes, etcetera. Now, you may not agree with all this (you probably don't) but you should understand that lecturing on the selectiveness of moral outrage is not going to change the fact that this is how current events are perceived in the west.

by ajuc 12y ago

osipov 12y ago

Keep mindlessly repeating the propaganda you are getting from your Polish media! It is almost as bad as the crap they are feeding Ukrainians.

vixen99 12y ago
He at least provides a few facts. Where are yours?
- osipov 12y ago
  It will be pointless for me to even try to argue facts for the following reasons. The subject we are debating is something that neither you or I know about first hand. Our entire basis for the discussion is based on reports of the subject through the media lens. Not sure about you but I'm monitoring media from both the Western and the Russian civilizations and there is no away that we can agree on the necessary facts if you are getting your opinions from just one source. The facts that we can agree on are probably trivial or have a conflicting interpretations. What do you think?
- osipov 12y ago
  Here some facts from a source that you'll deem Russian propaganda: http://uk.sputniknews.com/opinion/20150128/1013394849.html http://uk.sputniknews.com/opinion/20150128/1013394849.html
ajuc 12y ago
I don't follow Polish media. I mostly read stuff on skyscrappercity and reddit. Anyway, which part wasn't true?

osipov 12y ago

>The fact that Americans aren't always the good guys change nothing. I can show you many bad guys, this doesn't mean we should stop naming them. The issue is that you are applying your moral outrage selectively, against Putin but not against Obama, although Obama is objectively and provably committing atrocities above and beyond what Putin is doing. But Putin is the one getting all the bad rep from your media and you are content to uncritically recite their propaganda. Your selective moral outrage is as bad as French using laws that restrict free speech directed against Jews but not against Muslims.

ajuc 12y ago
So unless I criticize all the bad people on Earth I can't criticize anyone?
- osipov 12y ago
  I'd rather you be measured and balanced in your criticism.
  - ajuc 12y ago
    I am. When there was ACTA/SOPA debacle going on I criticized USA quite heavily for bullying small countries (including my country) to sign them. I even was on a street protest against it in my city [1]. the difference is - when USA bullies somebody to do sth it doesn't invade when they don't agree :) ACTA wasn't signed and no American invasion in sight. Anyway, to require people to criticize equaly or not at all is just dumb. Different people are intersted in different things, and it's OK. Just say "OK, Russia is bully there, but I don't care". Instead you try to defend such behaviour by showing that others do the same - not gonna work. This is just distraction debating tactic by you and you know it. [1] here you can see photos BTW https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajuc00/sets/72157629041344779/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajuc00/sets/72157629041344779/
tr352 12y ago
Putin with his actions has brought a nasty war to the doorstep of the western world. His actions are perceived (both in the US and EU) as harmful to the stability and peace in the western world. A stability and peace that took huge amounts of effort and time to be built. Putins actions are believed to go against every principle on which this stability is based: democracy, cooperation, no redrawing of maps (especially not without consensus), no raking up of old claims and disputes, etcetera. Now, you may not agree with all this (you probably don't) but you should understand that lecturing on the selectiveness of moral outrage is not going to change the fact that this is how current events are perceived in the west.