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So, Litvinenko was allegedly working with MI6 after leaving the KGB (and Russia). This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. Tha

So, Litvinenko was allegedly working with MI6 after leaving the KGB (and Russia). This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. That being said, this case makes me wonder if political assassinations also occur in Western politics, or if the killing of dissidents is mostly an Eastern Bloc thing.

pastProlog 12y ago
> this case makes me wonder if political assassinations also occur in Western politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JghQ0ZcRfQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JghQ0ZcRfQs
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  Calling that a political assassination is a bit of a stretch, given that he helped kidnap and kill two people.
  - pastProlog 12y ago
    > he helped kidnap and kill two people I think you mean: * he helped capture and execute two soldiers I'm not sure why one person working in military/intelligence being killed is a "political assassination" while the other one being killed is not. Well if that's not good enough, here's another Mossad piece of work, a Moroccan waiter with no political involvement at all gunned down by the Mossad in Norway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      > he helped capture and execute two soldiers Capture is fine. Summary execution of POWs is a war crime. > I'm not sure why one person working in military/intelligence being killed is a "political assassination" while the other one being killed is not. My point is: neither one was a political assassination. > Well if that's not good enough, here's another Mossad piece of work, a Moroccan waiter with no political involvement at all gunned down by the Mossad in Norway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Again, not a political assassination (as you said, he had no political involvement). That's an outright fuckup.
spacefight 12y ago
Remember Arafat? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yasser-arafat-probably-poisoned-with-polonium-swiss-scientists-say/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yasser-arafat-probably-poisoned-... That was most probably a "western" nation state at work too.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_Yasser_Arafat%27s_death#Suspicion_of_poisoning_with_polonium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_Yasser_Arafat%27s_deat... has a half a dozen sources indicating that his symptoms didn't match polonium poisoning.
bvm 12y ago
How about the Nazi hunters? Herbert Cukurs was assainated by Mossad in the 60s.
ajuc 12y ago
> This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. Why would you poison somebody with polonium of all things, if not to send a message "don't defect or else"? If "they" wanted him gone quietly almost all other solutions are cheaper, easier and less risky than polonium. Starting with organising a car accident. BTW why wrtie "eastern block" if you only have example from 1 country (namely Russia)? It's not like eastern block countries are similar to each other (except for 50 years of history ending 25 years ago). Compare Belarus, Estonia, Moldova and Czech Republic - completely different cultures, political systems.
- justincormack 12y ago
  Well there was the Bulgarian ricin-in-umbrella tip case too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov - also in London.
deleted 12y ago
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- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > I mean in the U.S. pretty much every prominent liberal ends up dead... Everyone ends up dead; mortality is universal. But plenty of prominent liberals in the US don't do so through misadventure: Paul Wellstone and Edward Kennedy, for example. And, of course, lots of prominent liberal contemporaries of those you point to are still alive and active (Al Sharpton, Jane Fonda, etc.)_ While, certainly, some prominent liberals have been killed, "nearly every prominent liberal"is an exaggeration. (Also, Malcolm X was a prominent anti-establishment activist, but was very much not a liberal, though I suppose one might interpret the way he was moving at the very end of his life to be in a direction less at odds with liberalism.)
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    Not to mention liberalism, in the US, is generally unarmed while conservatism is heavily armed. Quack-pot conservatives tends to shoot people and quack-pot liberals tend to bomb or deface things. The most prominent liberals I can think of are alive and well, or died of natural causes. Ted Kennedy for one. Bernie Sanders. Nancy Pelosie. All of these people actually passed liberal laws and were powerful characters. If there was some liberal conspiracy then I imagine they would have be the forefront for assassination.
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
"Eastern block" uh we're talking specifically about Russia here. >This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. Spies are rarely killed. They're traded for spies. Life isn't a Jame Bond movie. This, on the other hand, is clearly a politically motivated killing from a dictator known for it as well as annexing land and arbitrarily invading countries with unmarked troops. >That being said, this case makes me wonder if political assassinations also occur in Western politics More whataboutism when Russia comes up in the news? Color me unsurprised.
- diyorgasms 12y ago
  I was specifically trying to avoid the whataboutisms that so frequently come up in these discussions. I find what Putin is doing to be deplorable, and the pro-Russia astroturfing is often blatantly obvious. I had a genuine curiosity, but obviously I did a poor job of expressing it.

pastProlog 12y ago

> this case makes me wonder if political assassinations also occur in Western politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JghQ0ZcRfQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JghQ0ZcRfQs

ceejayoz 12y ago
Calling that a political assassination is a bit of a stretch, given that he helped kidnap and kill two people.
- pastProlog 12y ago
  > he helped kidnap and kill two people I think you mean: * he helped capture and execute two soldiers I'm not sure why one person working in military/intelligence being killed is a "political assassination" while the other one being killed is not. Well if that's not good enough, here's another Mossad piece of work, a Moroccan waiter with no political involvement at all gunned down by the Mossad in Norway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    > he helped capture and execute two soldiers Capture is fine. Summary execution of POWs is a war crime. > I'm not sure why one person working in military/intelligence being killed is a "political assassination" while the other one being killed is not. My point is: neither one was a political assassination. > Well if that's not good enough, here's another Mossad piece of work, a Moroccan waiter with no political involvement at all gunned down by the Mossad in Norway - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Again, not a political assassination (as you said, he had no political involvement). That's an outright fuckup.

spacefight 12y ago

Remember Arafat? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yasser-arafat-probably-poisoned-with-polonium-swiss-scientists-say/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/yasser-arafat-probably-poisoned-... That was most probably a "western" nation state at work too.

ceejayoz 12y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_Yasser_Arafat%27s_death#Suspicion_of_poisoning_with_polonium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_of_Yasser_Arafat%27s_deat... has a half a dozen sources indicating that his symptoms didn't match polonium poisoning.

bvm 12y ago

How about the Nazi hunters? Herbert Cukurs was assainated by Mossad in the 60s.

ajuc 12y ago

> This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. Why would you poison somebody with polonium of all things, if not to send a message "don't defect or else"? If "they" wanted him gone quietly almost all other solutions are cheaper, easier and less risky than polonium. Starting with organising a car accident. BTW why wrtie "eastern block" if you only have example from 1 country (namely Russia)? It's not like eastern block countries are similar to each other (except for 50 years of history ending 25 years ago). Compare Belarus, Estonia, Moldova and Czech Republic - completely different cultures, political systems.

justincormack 12y ago
Well there was the Bulgarian ricin-in-umbrella tip case too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov - also in London.

deleted 12y ago

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dragonwriter 12y ago
> I mean in the U.S. pretty much every prominent liberal ends up dead... Everyone ends up dead; mortality is universal. But plenty of prominent liberals in the US don't do so through misadventure: Paul Wellstone and Edward Kennedy, for example. And, of course, lots of prominent liberal contemporaries of those you point to are still alive and active (Al Sharpton, Jane Fonda, etc.)_ While, certainly, some prominent liberals have been killed, "nearly every prominent liberal"is an exaggeration. (Also, Malcolm X was a prominent anti-establishment activist, but was very much not a liberal, though I suppose one might interpret the way he was moving at the very end of his life to be in a direction less at odds with liberalism.)
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  Not to mention liberalism, in the US, is generally unarmed while conservatism is heavily armed. Quack-pot conservatives tends to shoot people and quack-pot liberals tend to bomb or deface things. The most prominent liberals I can think of are alive and well, or died of natural causes. Ted Kennedy for one. Bernie Sanders. Nancy Pelosie. All of these people actually passed liberal laws and were powerful characters. If there was some liberal conspiracy then I imagine they would have be the forefront for assassination.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

"Eastern block" uh we're talking specifically about Russia here. >This seems more like spycraft than a politically motivated assassination. Spies are rarely killed. They're traded for spies. Life isn't a Jame Bond movie. This, on the other hand, is clearly a politically motivated killing from a dictator known for it as well as annexing land and arbitrarily invading countries with unmarked troops. >That being said, this case makes me wonder if political assassinations also occur in Western politics More whataboutism when Russia comes up in the news? Color me unsurprised.

diyorgasms 12y ago
I was specifically trying to avoid the whataboutisms that so frequently come up in these discussions. I find what Putin is doing to be deplorable, and the pro-Russia astroturfing is often blatantly obvious. I had a genuine curiosity, but obviously I did a poor job of expressing it.