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I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with

I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/child-sexual-abuse-top-5-countries-highest-rates-1436162 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/child-sexual-abuse-top-5-countries-... There could be a theory that if you allow things that you'd normally consider crimes and unacceptable in a society, in virtual form, that would prevent the things from happening in real life, as those committing the acts would be "satisfied" by the virtual act, and wouldn't have a desire to do it in real life anymore. In a way, it kind of already works like that with (regular) porn. Now I wonder - and this is just a crazy idea I'm throwing out there - what if images of abused children, actually cause fewer "real" pedophiles to exist/commit those acts with real children? And what if our current "ban child porn from the Internet" policy just means more pedophiles will go looking for children to abuse in their local towns instead of watching online videos? Maybe it's just a crazy sick idea, but it might be worth exploring from a statistics point of view, to see whether our current policies are working or are actually making the problem worse. We probably don't even need to "experiment" with any new policy. I think we just need to carefully look at past data, and see what we can learn from it.

ekianjo 12y ago
> I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates: As I said in another comment it's not even the point. Is it moral to actually have kids access such depictions in the first place, whether it's actual pictures or drawings, is what I am talking about. Of course everyone will have a different opinion about that, I guess.
- nothrabannosir 12y ago
  Religion is for morality. Your point is fair, but we are talking about prohibition. That is (ideally) not done on the basis of morality alone. A good reason for a law to exist is to protect people from each other. Hence laws against real murder, and real child abuse. Photos of child abuse are clearly illegal because they mean actual child abuse has taken place. Not because they are immoral, per se. They may be, but that's not as clear an argument. For the same reason, the discussion about the legality of drawings / enactments of illegal acts centers not around morality, but around whether or not it will lead to more of those acts actually happening. You're getting downvoted because you stick to making the morality argument, implying that is reason enough for prohibition. HN is a crowd where many people feel it's not. In the spirit of "Live and let live", I tend to feel the same way.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    I'm not asking to prohibit anything. I'm just questioning the logic behind prohibiting one thing and actively encouraging one thing very close to what is being forbidden at the same time.
- Sir_Substance 12y ago
  >Is it moral to actually have kids access such depictions in the first place Is it moral for you to force your morals on someone who holds other morals?
ekianjo 12y ago
> I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates Incidence rates are useless if you are looking for Japan data, because the violence / sexual assaults on women are widely underreported here. Most women will not talk about it. And touching women in crowded areas (subway, trains) is so commonplace in Japan they made laws to criminalize it. That says enough, I think.
- Sir_Substance 12y ago
  >touching women in crowded areas (subway, trains) is so commonplace in Japan they made laws to criminalize it. That says enough, I think. I don't know how far you need to look into that. It's not like if you tried that here in Australia, the officer would have to let you go because he didn't have anything to charge you with...
  - sukilot 12y ago
    Really? Australia regularly arrests people for non-criminal activity, as often as in other places where the activity is criminal?
    - Sir_Substance 12y ago
      You're not going to get arrested for accidentally bumping someone. However, if you get grabby then yeah, you could get arrested. That's known as "Assault". Look it up, it's criminal.
ptaipale 12y ago
> it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates: Though, what that actually means is that UK and US have mechanisms to report, investigate and prosecute child abuse cases that would be perfectly legal and normal in other places. In other news, there are about 30 times as many rapes per capita in Sweden as there are in India, or 80 times as many rapes as in Yemen or Syria. That is, rapes that are recorded in statistics. [0] It should be obvious that this relates to how things are processed, not what actually happens to people. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics - numbers obviously need to be consumed with larger amounts of NaCl.

ekianjo 12y ago

> I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates: As I said in another comment it's not even the point. Is it moral to actually have kids access such depictions in the first place, whether it's actual pictures or drawings, is what I am talking about. Of course everyone will have a different opinion about that, I guess.

nothrabannosir 12y ago
Religion is for morality. Your point is fair, but we are talking about prohibition. That is (ideally) not done on the basis of morality alone. A good reason for a law to exist is to protect people from each other. Hence laws against real murder, and real child abuse. Photos of child abuse are clearly illegal because they mean actual child abuse has taken place. Not because they are immoral, per se. They may be, but that's not as clear an argument. For the same reason, the discussion about the legality of drawings / enactments of illegal acts centers not around morality, but around whether or not it will lead to more of those acts actually happening. You're getting downvoted because you stick to making the morality argument, implying that is reason enough for prohibition. HN is a crowd where many people feel it's not. In the spirit of "Live and let live", I tend to feel the same way.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  I'm not asking to prohibit anything. I'm just questioning the logic behind prohibiting one thing and actively encouraging one thing very close to what is being forbidden at the same time.
Sir_Substance 12y ago
>Is it moral to actually have kids access such depictions in the first place Is it moral for you to force your morals on someone who holds other morals?

ekianjo 12y ago

> I wonder if that manga increases or decreases the number of actual child abuses. Doing a quick Google search, it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates Incidence rates are useless if you are looking for Japan data, because the violence / sexual assaults on women are widely underreported here. Most women will not talk about it. And touching women in crowded areas (subway, trains) is so commonplace in Japan they made laws to criminalize it. That says enough, I think.

Sir_Substance 12y ago
>touching women in crowded areas (subway, trains) is so commonplace in Japan they made laws to criminalize it. That says enough, I think. I don't know how far you need to look into that. It's not like if you tried that here in Australia, the officer would have to let you go because he didn't have anything to charge you with...
- sukilot 12y ago
  Really? Australia regularly arrests people for non-criminal activity, as often as in other places where the activity is criminal?
  - Sir_Substance 12y ago
    You're not going to get arrested for accidentally bumping someone. However, if you get grabby then yeah, you could get arrested. That's known as "Assault". Look it up, it's criminal.

ptaipale 12y ago

> it seems UK and US are in the top 5 countries with highest child abuse rates: Though, what that actually means is that UK and US have mechanisms to report, investigate and prosecute child abuse cases that would be perfectly legal and normal in other places. In other news, there are about 30 times as many rapes per capita in Sweden as there are in India, or 80 times as many rapes as in Yemen or Syria. That is, rapes that are recorded in statistics. [0] It should be obvious that this relates to how things are processed, not what actually happens to people. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics - numbers obviously need to be consumed with larger amounts of NaCl.