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> When I step back and look at the world, for all of our terrible mistakes, we (the western capitalist states) really are the good guys, because personally and

> When I step back and look at the world, for all of our terrible mistakes, we (the western capitalist states) really are the good guys, because personally and politically, overwhelmingly, we really do despise the despots, and the racists, and the needless violence and barbarism that rises to power in too many places in the world. The history of western capitalist states has largely been one of rampant colonialism. [1] Post-WW2, the U.S. has overthrown countless governments, often democratic ones, to install regimes that would carry out U.S. policy, and serve western national and corporate interests. [2] > As anti-authoritarian as I am, I still can't get behind killing anyone. Except for the covert coups and the mass genocides. Those are nothing to worry about and can be written off as "misguided idealism", since we "really are the good guys". [1] http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-Military-Interventions-Since/dp/1567510523 http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-Military-Interventions-Si... [2] http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

javajosh 12y ago
I am not a cold war historian. Let's take something more recent, like the 2003 invasion of Iraq. There was a great deal of killing in that war, and all of it under false pretenses in the service of the neocon idea that overthrowing Saddam would have a domino effect in the region, and create a democratic, liberal middle east free of it's oppressive dictatorships. It was wrong, it was stupid; but the goal was right. The various Arab Springs proved that. Governments in the middle-east are terrible and oppressive. And sure, these sick states exist because of historical western imperialism and the aftermath of WWI, and are more recently maintained by oil revenue. Fine. The fact remains that democracy is better and ideally there would be democracy (and yes, capitalism) in the middle east. Maybe I'm totally wrong. But my personal experience here was good, and it doesn't seem evil to give other people the same benefits I got. My parents were poor high school graduates who created a small business that put me through college and made them wealthy. Western capitalism gave them that opportunity. It also gave them the ability to worship how they wanted, and encouraged them to tolerate, and appreciate, people of other races, creeds and religions. If there's a nation or a system of government that gives those benefits without any of the drawbacks, then I'm all ears, programmarchy! The incompetent and frankly evil ways in which we've tried to protect and spread that system are shameful, but it doesn't undermine the value of the system. (This assumes, of course, that our goal is to spread our way of life throughout the world, and not just consolidate control of natural resources for the Fatherland's inordinate consumption, a la Rome).

javajosh 12y ago

I am not a cold war historian. Let's take something more recent, like the 2003 invasion of Iraq. There was a great deal of killing in that war, and all of it under false pretenses in the service of the neocon idea that overthrowing Saddam would have a domino effect in the region, and create a democratic, liberal middle east free of it's oppressive dictatorships. It was wrong, it was stupid; but the goal was right. The various Arab Springs proved that. Governments in the middle-east are terrible and oppressive. And sure, these sick states exist because of historical western imperialism and the aftermath of WWI, and are more recently maintained by oil revenue. Fine. The fact remains that democracy is better and ideally there would be democracy (and yes, capitalism) in the middle east. Maybe I'm totally wrong. But my personal experience here was good, and it doesn't seem evil to give other people the same benefits I got. My parents were poor high school graduates who created a small business that put me through college and made them wealthy. Western capitalism gave them that opportunity. It also gave them the ability to worship how they wanted, and encouraged them to tolerate, and appreciate, people of other races, creeds and religions. If there's a nation or a system of government that gives those benefits without any of the drawbacks, then I'm all ears, programmarchy! The incompetent and frankly evil ways in which we've tried to protect and spread that system are shameful, but it doesn't undermine the value of the system. (This assumes, of course, that our goal is to spread our way of life throughout the world, and not just consolidate control of natural resources for the Fatherland's inordinate consumption, a la Rome).