4 ms·

Sometimes it is pilot error, but apparently not in this case. Seems to be a failure in the ferry tank pumps according to comments on avcanada.

kevin_thibedeau 12y ago
Or it's an insurance scam because the owner needed some cash. A staged accident in the middle of an ocean is a nice way to pull that off.
- glhaynes 12y ago
  Yeah, but a staged accident in the middle of an ocean sounds pretty unsafe, too.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Not at all. GA aircraft have slow stall speeds, and as you can see from both scenarios, first-responder response time is extremely quick when you follow protocol. The Cirrus even has an airframe parachute for a soft landing.
    - avemg 12y ago
      Not for nothing, but Vso (stall speed with full flaps) in the CIrrus SR22 is still 59 knots (68mph/109kmh) and remember airframes don't have the same crash safety features that automobiles do. It's a lot slower than an airliner's would be but you're not exactly gently touching down.
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        The Cirrus SR22 airframe parachute ensures a soft, slow landing. These are not unsurvivable forces we're talking about.
        cpncrunch 12y ago
        By far the biggest risk in ditching is drowning. This guy was a highly experienced ferry pilot, so he knew precisely what he was doing.
        astrec 12y ago
        Ray Clamback, one of the more experienced ferry pilots (300 US->AU deliveries from memory) went into the drink off Hawaii on two separate occasions and had to tread water for 10 and 6 hours respectively. Nothing "safe" about it.
        acveilleux 12y ago
        I never understood why they don't just strap them on a ship and send them out as project cargo. Or take the wings off and containerize. That's done all the time for Yachts which are perfectly able to be sailed to destination. Only real difference is how long it takes but a modern container liner is suprisingly fast.
        astrec 12y ago
        Time and money. For example, to ship a new Cirrus SR20 to Australia starts at $28,995 and you'll need to wait for factory reassembly and certification. To ferry the same aircraft costs $22,800.
  - tzs 12y ago
    Ditching small planes has something like a 90% survival rate, and that includes planes that ditched in much worse situations. For someone in a bad enough situation that they are willing to commit insurance fraud by faking a crash, it probably is a pretty good risk. See this earlier comment for a link to data on small plane ditching: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8957313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8957313 That said, insurance companies aren't stupid. Would they really let the person insure the plane for so much that it is better to lose it for insurance than to simply sell it?
    - sacredsun 12y ago
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- RyJones 12y ago
  there was a member of Microsoft Pilots that did exactly that. Faked a crash on land as prep, crashed in Elliot Bay and swam to the house of his ex and "stole" a car in an attempt and insurance fraud.

kevin_thibedeau 12y ago

Or it's an insurance scam because the owner needed some cash. A staged accident in the middle of an ocean is a nice way to pull that off.

glhaynes 12y ago
Yeah, but a staged accident in the middle of an ocean sounds pretty unsafe, too.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Not at all. GA aircraft have slow stall speeds, and as you can see from both scenarios, first-responder response time is extremely quick when you follow protocol. The Cirrus even has an airframe parachute for a soft landing.
  - avemg 12y ago
    Not for nothing, but Vso (stall speed with full flaps) in the CIrrus SR22 is still 59 knots (68mph/109kmh) and remember airframes don't have the same crash safety features that automobiles do. It's a lot slower than an airliner's would be but you're not exactly gently touching down.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      The Cirrus SR22 airframe parachute ensures a soft, slow landing. These are not unsurvivable forces we're talking about.
      - cpncrunch 12y ago
        By far the biggest risk in ditching is drowning. This guy was a highly experienced ferry pilot, so he knew precisely what he was doing.
      - astrec 12y ago
        Ray Clamback, one of the more experienced ferry pilots (300 US->AU deliveries from memory) went into the drink off Hawaii on two separate occasions and had to tread water for 10 and 6 hours respectively. Nothing "safe" about it.
        acveilleux 12y ago
        I never understood why they don't just strap them on a ship and send them out as project cargo. Or take the wings off and containerize. That's done all the time for Yachts which are perfectly able to be sailed to destination. Only real difference is how long it takes but a modern container liner is suprisingly fast.
        astrec 12y ago
        Time and money. For example, to ship a new Cirrus SR20 to Australia starts at $28,995 and you'll need to wait for factory reassembly and certification. To ferry the same aircraft costs $22,800.
- tzs 12y ago
  Ditching small planes has something like a 90% survival rate, and that includes planes that ditched in much worse situations. For someone in a bad enough situation that they are willing to commit insurance fraud by faking a crash, it probably is a pretty good risk. See this earlier comment for a link to data on small plane ditching: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8957313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8957313 That said, insurance companies aren't stupid. Would they really let the person insure the plane for so much that it is better to lose it for insurance than to simply sell it?
  - sacredsun 12y ago
    sacredsun , sacred sun , Lead Acid Battery, VRLA Battery, Telecom Battery, UPS Battery, Solar Battery, Motive Battery, AGM Battery, Gel Battery, Lithium-ion Battery
RyJones 12y ago
there was a member of Microsoft Pilots that did exactly that. Faked a crash on land as prep, crashed in Elliot Bay and swam to the house of his ex and "stole" a car in an attempt and insurance fraud.