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This is an interesting story. I started teaching myself to code about 1 year ago. I started with html/css/scss and then moved to vanilla JS. Started working wit

This is an interesting story. I started teaching myself to code about 1 year ago. I started with html/css/scss and then moved to vanilla JS. Started working with a few frameworks and the command line, and then started a bootcamp. The bootcamp was a total disappointment, and I definitely don't feel like it was worth the money. I am applying for jobs now and it is tough. Like someone mentioned below, the transition is hard from bootcamp to jr dev role. I feel pretty competent in building applications, usually meanstack stuff and a bit of rails(like ruby not a huge fan of rails) and deploying via linux instances. While I understand that there is nothin to stop me from applying places, a lot of these companies want 5 years or a CS degree to do front-end development. I am started to get a little traction but it is tough. People with CS degrees often mock my lack of understanding of concepts like stack vs. heap memory, data structures, sort algorithims, etc, while applying for jobs they not only dont want to do themselves, but don't reqiuire that knowledge. Tl;dr congrats, it is a hard road to legitimacy for a self-taught developer.

Deebot 12y ago
Every time I hear a sob story about how it's hard to find a job as a "self taught developer", then find out that the person telling the story just started "self-teaching" a year ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
dkarapetyan 12y ago
People with CS degrees are just as clueless as everyone else. Pretty much every good developer I've worked with has not had a pure CS education. They've all had varied backgrounds and the only thing that ties them together is that they really enjoy solving problems.
eastbayjake 12y ago
Mind naming names about the bootcamp? I ask for two reasons: (1) Other people who are getting ready to shell out $10k for a bootcamp deserve to hear from dissatisfied alumni (2) There's a lot of negative press around bootcamps and the good ones shouldn't be lumped in with the bad ones. I had a great experience at Hack Reactor that set me up for interview success with data structures and algorithms, despite lacking a formal CS degree.
- vonklaus 12y ago
  General Assembly, Los Angeles. I feel like a relatively competent developer, but I had to work my ass off. I wanted to do a bootcamp to get polished. To learn the right way of doing things. I found it much less immersive and instructional and they have flooded the market with subpar developers. I don't want to say much more publicly, but if you are interested we can talk more privately about it, and my experience.
  - eastbayjake 12y ago
    I'm really sorry you had that experience. It sounds similar to the industry sentiment: General Assembly is geared towards founders who want to quickly acquire a discrete set of business skills in a short period of time, and they're at a competitive disadvantage against coding bootcamps that specialize in programming skills. It seems like the only area where they can compete is price point. I'm not sure why GA is pursuing this strategy because it seems to be poisoning their reputation. They really shine with things like weekend courses on marketing analytics or a two-hour course where a non-technical founder can get some concepts and vocabulary to grok what the engineering team is doing, but their nine-week courses are lightweight and don't serve their graduates very well. In fact, when I hear engineers complaining about "bootcamp graduates" it's never about Hack Reactor and rarely about DevBootcamp or App Academy -- it's usually General Assembly.
    - vonklaus 12y ago
      Yeah. I strongly considered those ones, however I was in LA, and they are the only game in town. Thanks.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
elliotec 12y ago
Thanks! Here's a secret, they don't actually care if you have a CS degree or 5 years experience. You can ignore that on any job description. If you can prove that you are able to do the job, that's what they are looking for. Another quick point, those CS concepts will come with practice, and you might not know every aspect of what is happening in the CPU when you use .sort! on an array, but I assure you that you will not be required to rewrite sorting algorithms in any job you should be applying for.
- vonklaus 12y ago
  Thanks. I know I can do most of the stuff asked. Most of these places want flat designed applications with animation, a nice UI and CRUD functionality. Maybe a token based api and a few forms. Im going to get a job, i am disappointed in the lack of brand strength of the institution I attended, so I am doing a few side projects and contract work to prove to employers I am competent and can learn. Thanks
  - gopher2 12y ago
    What did you use to find contract work?
girvo 12y ago
Do what I did: go learn that CS stuff on your own :) it's fascinating, and gives me motivation when building standard CRUD app isn't doing it for me. Coursera, the MIT lectures, books: dive in, and you'll come out the other side with understanding and knowledge that will help you in the long run. If you enjoy coding, and enjoy problem solving and logical thinking, you'll probably enjoy learning those topics on your own as much as I have been!

Deebot 12y ago

Every time I hear a sob story about how it's hard to find a job as a "self taught developer", then find out that the person telling the story just started "self-teaching" a year ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

dkarapetyan 12y ago

People with CS degrees are just as clueless as everyone else. Pretty much every good developer I've worked with has not had a pure CS education. They've all had varied backgrounds and the only thing that ties them together is that they really enjoy solving problems.

eastbayjake 12y ago

Mind naming names about the bootcamp? I ask for two reasons: (1) Other people who are getting ready to shell out $10k for a bootcamp deserve to hear from dissatisfied alumni (2) There's a lot of negative press around bootcamps and the good ones shouldn't be lumped in with the bad ones. I had a great experience at Hack Reactor that set me up for interview success with data structures and algorithms, despite lacking a formal CS degree.

vonklaus 12y ago
General Assembly, Los Angeles. I feel like a relatively competent developer, but I had to work my ass off. I wanted to do a bootcamp to get polished. To learn the right way of doing things. I found it much less immersive and instructional and they have flooded the market with subpar developers. I don't want to say much more publicly, but if you are interested we can talk more privately about it, and my experience.
- eastbayjake 12y ago
  I'm really sorry you had that experience. It sounds similar to the industry sentiment: General Assembly is geared towards founders who want to quickly acquire a discrete set of business skills in a short period of time, and they're at a competitive disadvantage against coding bootcamps that specialize in programming skills. It seems like the only area where they can compete is price point. I'm not sure why GA is pursuing this strategy because it seems to be poisoning their reputation. They really shine with things like weekend courses on marketing analytics or a two-hour course where a non-technical founder can get some concepts and vocabulary to grok what the engineering team is doing, but their nine-week courses are lightweight and don't serve their graduates very well. In fact, when I hear engineers complaining about "bootcamp graduates" it's never about Hack Reactor and rarely about DevBootcamp or App Academy -- it's usually General Assembly.
  - vonklaus 12y ago
    Yeah. I strongly considered those ones, however I was in LA, and they are the only game in town. Thanks.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

elliotec 12y ago

Thanks! Here's a secret, they don't actually care if you have a CS degree or 5 years experience. You can ignore that on any job description. If you can prove that you are able to do the job, that's what they are looking for. Another quick point, those CS concepts will come with practice, and you might not know every aspect of what is happening in the CPU when you use .sort! on an array, but I assure you that you will not be required to rewrite sorting algorithms in any job you should be applying for.

vonklaus 12y ago
Thanks. I know I can do most of the stuff asked. Most of these places want flat designed applications with animation, a nice UI and CRUD functionality. Maybe a token based api and a few forms. Im going to get a job, i am disappointed in the lack of brand strength of the institution I attended, so I am doing a few side projects and contract work to prove to employers I am competent and can learn. Thanks
- gopher2 12y ago
  What did you use to find contract work?

girvo 12y ago

Do what I did: go learn that CS stuff on your own :) it's fascinating, and gives me motivation when building standard CRUD app isn't doing it for me. Coursera, the MIT lectures, books: dive in, and you'll come out the other side with understanding and knowledge that will help you in the long run. If you enjoy coding, and enjoy problem solving and logical thinking, you'll probably enjoy learning those topics on your own as much as I have been!