3 ms·

What's the ANSI rating of the deadbolt? Is it some cheap Chinese OEM version? With all due respect, but considering all the issues with the first Lockitron (wh

by bravo22 12y ago

What's the ANSI rating of the deadbolt? Is it some cheap Chinese OEM version? With all due respect, but considering all the issues with the first Lockitron (which apparently hasn't shipped to all backers yet) I'd have serious considerations trusting this product. If you couldn't ship a product that would rotate a motor, how should we trust you now to actually have a reliable physical lock and keyway as well!?

paulgerhardt 12y ago
You're a tough one to please. Bolt is spec'd for Grade 2. Previously you complained Lockitron was too expensive[1], now you complain it's too cheap? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912
- bravo22 12y ago
  For reference Kwisket/Weiser locks, even the basic deadbolts like 980, are ANSI Grade 1. So why would you provide an inferior bolt!? I'm not complaining about the price. I'm concerned that now there are two points of failure and that not only there is the risk of the electronics not working and randomly stopping (based on your track record of poor product development) but people are putting an inferior mechanical deadbolt on their door which can be broken into easier and possibly fail more than a regular $20 deadbolt from Home Depot. I would think as a company with such a checkered past you would be more humble instead of attacking your potential user base.
  - paulgerhardt 12y ago
    Are you asking rhetorically or do you earnestly want to know?
    - bravo22 12y ago
      I'm puzzled as to why you would provide a Grade 2 instead of a Grade 1. So yes I would like to know what the reasoning was behind that.
      - paulgerhardt 12y ago
        If I recall, to be a true Grade 1 one needs to pass a UL test for your electronics to withstand a minute of fire which requires packing them in sand. We're fine being labeled a Grade 2 if we're using a Grade 1 deadbolt, Grade 1 keyway, and Grade 2 electronics. Some locksmiths are trying to revoke the Grade 1 rating on those Kwiksets you mentioned because of the Smartkey vulnerability. (Grade 1 requires a certain threshold of "pick proof" and "drill proof" which they argue fails to hold up.) Bolt does not have that same vuln. but you can see what it looks like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mmjVvMsGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mmjVvMsGs
        bravo22 12y ago
        That is incorrect. The ANSI grading applies to the mechanical lock, keyway, and cylinder only and that was my question. It has nothing to do with UL testing of the electronics or withstanding fire! It has to do with how easily one can drill into it, or pry it off with a crowbar, or pick it etc. The spec is only a few dollars, you might want to buy it from BHMA. The point is Grade 1 ANSI rating is important and offers security against intrusion. You're offering everyone a Grade 2 bolt and from your response seem to be even confused about the difference between the two. Your deadbolt as you already said is Grade 2. So now you're saying is Grade 1??!
- bravo22 12y ago
  ... and the previous response is clearly a rebuttal to your assertion that it was too "expensive" to build the failed gen lockitron. I pointed out that the BOM and build costs couldn't be nearly as high as you were claiming. It wasn't about the retail price.
- sosborn 12y ago
  A product can be too expensive while also being too cheap. In this case "cheap" refers to the build quality. In other words, cheap for the company to procure.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Different components of a system will have different goal prices. The previous complaint about being expensive was about the cost of the electronics and motor. The question/complaint here is about the cost of the deadbolt. There's absolutely nothing inconsistent about saying you want a cheaper motor or electronics, while insisting on an expensive, quality deadbolt.

by bravo22 12y ago

paulgerhardt 12y ago

You're a tough one to please. Bolt is spec'd for Grade 2. Previously you complained Lockitron was too expensive[1], now you complain it's too cheap? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8028912

bravo22 12y ago
For reference Kwisket/Weiser locks, even the basic deadbolts like 980, are ANSI Grade 1. So why would you provide an inferior bolt!? I'm not complaining about the price. I'm concerned that now there are two points of failure and that not only there is the risk of the electronics not working and randomly stopping (based on your track record of poor product development) but people are putting an inferior mechanical deadbolt on their door which can be broken into easier and possibly fail more than a regular $20 deadbolt from Home Depot. I would think as a company with such a checkered past you would be more humble instead of attacking your potential user base.
- paulgerhardt 12y ago
  Are you asking rhetorically or do you earnestly want to know?
  - bravo22 12y ago
    I'm puzzled as to why you would provide a Grade 2 instead of a Grade 1. So yes I would like to know what the reasoning was behind that.
    - paulgerhardt 12y ago
      If I recall, to be a true Grade 1 one needs to pass a UL test for your electronics to withstand a minute of fire which requires packing them in sand. We're fine being labeled a Grade 2 if we're using a Grade 1 deadbolt, Grade 1 keyway, and Grade 2 electronics. Some locksmiths are trying to revoke the Grade 1 rating on those Kwiksets you mentioned because of the Smartkey vulnerability. (Grade 1 requires a certain threshold of "pick proof" and "drill proof" which they argue fails to hold up.) Bolt does not have that same vuln. but you can see what it looks like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mmjVvMsGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mmjVvMsGs
      - bravo22 12y ago
        That is incorrect. The ANSI grading applies to the mechanical lock, keyway, and cylinder only and that was my question. It has nothing to do with UL testing of the electronics or withstanding fire! It has to do with how easily one can drill into it, or pry it off with a crowbar, or pick it etc. The spec is only a few dollars, you might want to buy it from BHMA. The point is Grade 1 ANSI rating is important and offers security against intrusion. You're offering everyone a Grade 2 bolt and from your response seem to be even confused about the difference between the two. Your deadbolt as you already said is Grade 2. So now you're saying is Grade 1??!
bravo22 12y ago
... and the previous response is clearly a rebuttal to your assertion that it was too "expensive" to build the failed gen lockitron. I pointed out that the BOM and build costs couldn't be nearly as high as you were claiming. It wasn't about the retail price.
sosborn 12y ago
A product can be too expensive while also being too cheap. In this case "cheap" refers to the build quality. In other words, cheap for the company to procure.
mikeash 12y ago
Different components of a system will have different goal prices. The previous complaint about being expensive was about the cost of the electronics and motor. The question/complaint here is about the cost of the deadbolt. There's absolutely nothing inconsistent about saying you want a cheaper motor or electronics, while insisting on an expensive, quality deadbolt.