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>Remember the effort us lifers put into making tools that allowed "the masses" access to programming, like BASIC, Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal and all of that? Ho

>Remember the effort us lifers put into making tools that allowed "the masses" access to programming, like BASIC, Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal and all of that? How can we now, with any credibility, bemoan the very future so many of us tried to build? First of all, you should keep in mind that while the hacker culture may have been tightly knit, we have never been a hivemind. (One only needs to look at the various holy wars as proof of that.) While I'm sure there were plenty of people working to make programming easier to learn for newbies (BASIC is a good, perhaps misguided example of this), not all fit into this category. Case in point, Turbo Pascal. Perhaps you know something I don't, but that was created as a commercial venture. It was sold to companies to make a profit. Its relative ease of use was just something marketing said to managers to get them to buy licenses. Yes, both were created to be easier to learn, but I feel the reasons matter here. One was created to spread the joy of learning, to get more people hooked on programming. The other was created to lower the barrier of entry to programming so that companies could hopefully hire dumber, less motivated people to do the same work. Personally, the article resonated with me. It reminded me of the first time I turned God Mode on in DoomII, only to discover it completely ruined the fun of the game. Yes, everything is easier these days, and I can prototype an application far easier than I could 20 years ago. But it's not as fun. I used to think it was just me, that I was running out of motivation or ideas, but now I'm wondering if it's actually something else.

ZenoArrow 12y ago
> But it's not as fun. I used to think it was just me, that I was running out of motivation or ideas, but now I'm wondering if it's actually something else. I don't know your background, so I'd like to ask you; aside from programming, what motivates you? Corporate programming is easy to become disenchanted with as it's very repetitive and the end result is often safe but underwhelming. There are tons of programmers who could build CRUD apps or eCommerce websites in their sleep, but do they find the work stimulating? I can't tell you what you'd find more stimulating than cookie cutter corporate work, but it's clear there's a great deal of barely explored ways for computer programming to make a positive difference in our world. The way I like to think about it sometimes is I want to work for the world, any other employer is just a means to that end. Having that goal in mind helps me decide what's worth doing in the here and now. Perhaps it could help you find what you want too?
- cubano 12y ago
  I can't tell you what you'd find more stimulating than cookie cutter corporate work, but it's clear there's a great deal of barely explored ways for computer programming to make a positive difference in our world. I love this...it's so true and such a positive way of looking at the state of software development circa 2015. Never before has so much technology been laid before us, available at whim...perhaps the sheer volume of choice is what many oldsters bemoan, as it can often feel pointless to choose one knowing it will probably be unsupported and abandoned in the near future.
  - ZenoArrow 12y ago
    Thanks cubano! Good to meet a kindred spirit. :-) What you say about overwhelming choice is true too, it is undoubtedly a challenge to balance getting things done and advancing the state of the art. The role of compromise is one we all learn sooner or later, to be comfortable trading minor inconvenience for major benefits. Our field is still relatively young, so there are numerous choices over compromise to make, but we'll be going around in circles unless we're committed to our toolset for the long haul. That's not to say we block out trying other things, but it is about having a 'main' language. I've personally chosen to stick with F# for a while, I hope others will find the tools they want to stick with too, we'll all benefit.

ZenoArrow 12y ago

> But it's not as fun. I used to think it was just me, that I was running out of motivation or ideas, but now I'm wondering if it's actually something else. I don't know your background, so I'd like to ask you; aside from programming, what motivates you? Corporate programming is easy to become disenchanted with as it's very repetitive and the end result is often safe but underwhelming. There are tons of programmers who could build CRUD apps or eCommerce websites in their sleep, but do they find the work stimulating? I can't tell you what you'd find more stimulating than cookie cutter corporate work, but it's clear there's a great deal of barely explored ways for computer programming to make a positive difference in our world. The way I like to think about it sometimes is I want to work for the world, any other employer is just a means to that end. Having that goal in mind helps me decide what's worth doing in the here and now. Perhaps it could help you find what you want too?

cubano 12y ago
I can't tell you what you'd find more stimulating than cookie cutter corporate work, but it's clear there's a great deal of barely explored ways for computer programming to make a positive difference in our world. I love this...it's so true and such a positive way of looking at the state of software development circa 2015. Never before has so much technology been laid before us, available at whim...perhaps the sheer volume of choice is what many oldsters bemoan, as it can often feel pointless to choose one knowing it will probably be unsupported and abandoned in the near future.
- ZenoArrow 12y ago
  Thanks cubano! Good to meet a kindred spirit. :-) What you say about overwhelming choice is true too, it is undoubtedly a challenge to balance getting things done and advancing the state of the art. The role of compromise is one we all learn sooner or later, to be comfortable trading minor inconvenience for major benefits. Our field is still relatively young, so there are numerous choices over compromise to make, but we'll be going around in circles unless we're committed to our toolset for the long haul. That's not to say we block out trying other things, but it is about having a 'main' language. I've personally chosen to stick with F# for a while, I hope others will find the tools they want to stick with too, we'll all benefit.