6 ms·

How I Got a Job in Web Development

109 points by elliotec 12y ago

jlees 12y ago
In my experience dealing with bootcamp grads, the transition from bootcamp to full-time offer can be a really tough one, and it sounds like your experience roughly mirrors those I've seen. A combination of persistence, improving your online presence/findability, and working on stuff. Congrats on making it through :) I wonder if the experience would have been different in the Bay Area due to the sheer number of folks in a similar position?
- elliotec 12y ago
  Thanks! I'm sure it's more difficult for the people in the Bay Area because of the saturation. I saw that even in Seattle to a lesser extent.
mappmechanic 12y ago
It is nice to see your journey. I think 1 year of dedication is good time to achieve any target you set if you keep your focus.
bredren 12y ago
I have a cousin who has been taking beginner CS classes and is actively looking at the steps she can take to eventually move into a job in web programming. I've provided some feedback, but this first hand account is particularly useful. I've shared it with her. Thank you.
mooreds 12y ago
This was really really interesting. As someone who has been around for a while, it was great to see the journey through your eyes. One thing though. The fact that you were "offered a senior position in ruby, Rails, and front end development" after less than one year of development makes me worry about that "software development contractor company". I wonder if the OP would have felt comfortable being in a senior role. More thoughts on what makes someone 'senior' here: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/25564/when-should-you-call-yourself-a-senior-developer http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/25564/when-sh... (Hint, it isn't just time on the job.)
- elliotec 12y ago
  Honestly I was a bit taken aback by the offer as well. I think that a big part was how I built my reputation and supply and demand of developers in Salt Lake. They did a pretty heavy technical interview with me, (but no actual code writing, interestingly) and I did very well. So maybe I did get good enough that fast, but I think it was a combination of other factors that might've helped me more than my actual skill. I don't know if I would've been comfortable in that role. It may have played a part in me not accepting it. I know I wasn't comfortable with the team, and if they had to answer to me than it might have been an uncomfortable situation all around.
  - mooreds 12y ago
    Fair enough. I wasn't sure if it was title inflation to bill end clients more. Good on ya for knocking that interview out of the park.
    - elliotec 12y ago
      That could definitely have been a factor as well. Thanks for the compliments!
opisa54yrip 12y ago
Sorry, but this is exactly why there is no point in believing of "front end developer" being a career that can offer a sustainable living, in the western world at least, in the coming years. Greetings, from somebody, who in the 90s, was a) still going to school and b) making 8.0000 - 10.000 DM per website, "on the side". Yeah, those where the times.. One question, just for fun: have you even heard of some "Zeldman"? (To the inclined: We coded to the DTD long before he got off print design. Because only coding to standards was cool on the usenet, already in the 90s :-) )
- sosuke 12y ago
  Get off my lawn! Just because this person didn't have to suffer like we did doesn't mean they won't be productive and make a living. Zeldman was great, but these new folks coming into the market are following DHH, bootstrapped rapid frameworks that scaffold it all. They are building quick and cool things, and will have years to figure out all the inner workings. It is a sustainable living, and if you don't sit on your hands it will be for some time. Though we might call ourselves something different by then right?
  - girvo 12y ago
    I think your parents argument is that it isn't sustainable. If one can learn and be productive as quickly as the OP, then it follows that the developer "shortage" will only be temporary for this particular corner of the industry.
    - sosuke 12y ago
      Possibly, but we've seen a developer gold rush in the past and it doesn't last. Those who do shine through.
- Bahamut 12y ago
  What is wrong with frontend development? I don't quite understand your point. Most frontend web developers I have worked without are also competant to excellent backend web developers (or more). I'm not sure why they would be necessarily constrained to one domain, or why the domain is not important enough to hire for.
sosuke 12y ago
Congratulations you've entered the market at a golden time, be sure to keep sharp and keep learning because anyone sitting on their hands will be left behind. Again, welcome, and you've done it in just a year, so you've got all your career achievements ahead of you!
vonklaus 12y ago
This is an interesting story. I started teaching myself to code about 1 year ago. I started with html/css/scss and then moved to vanilla JS. Started working with a few frameworks and the command line, and then started a bootcamp. The bootcamp was a total disappointment, and I definitely don't feel like it was worth the money. I am applying for jobs now and it is tough. Like someone mentioned below, the transition is hard from bootcamp to jr dev role. I feel pretty competent in building applications, usually meanstack stuff and a bit of rails(like ruby not a huge fan of rails) and deploying via linux instances. While I understand that there is nothin to stop me from applying places, a lot of these companies want 5 years or a CS degree to do front-end development. I am started to get a little traction but it is tough. People with CS degrees often mock my lack of understanding of concepts like stack vs. heap memory, data structures, sort algorithims, etc, while applying for jobs they not only dont want to do themselves, but don't reqiuire that knowledge. Tl;dr congrats, it is a hard road to legitimacy for a self-taught developer.
- Deebot 12y ago
  Every time I hear a sob story about how it's hard to find a job as a "self taught developer", then find out that the person telling the story just started "self-teaching" a year ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
- dkarapetyan 12y ago
  People with CS degrees are just as clueless as everyone else. Pretty much every good developer I've worked with has not had a pure CS education. They've all had varied backgrounds and the only thing that ties them together is that they really enjoy solving problems.
- eastbayjake 12y ago
  Mind naming names about the bootcamp? I ask for two reasons: (1) Other people who are getting ready to shell out $10k for a bootcamp deserve to hear from dissatisfied alumni (2) There's a lot of negative press around bootcamps and the good ones shouldn't be lumped in with the bad ones. I had a great experience at Hack Reactor that set me up for interview success with data structures and algorithms, despite lacking a formal CS degree.
mikemee 12y ago
Congrats on working hard & smart and getting results. Also impressed by Starbucks' role in all of this. How many other companies would have supported you through that period and perhaps in some way made this possible for you! I can't say I like their coffee much, but I've always admired them as a company that values employees and your experience adds to their cred imnsho.

109 points by elliotec 12y ago

jlees 12y ago

In my experience dealing with bootcamp grads, the transition from bootcamp to full-time offer can be a really tough one, and it sounds like your experience roughly mirrors those I've seen. A combination of persistence, improving your online presence/findability, and working on stuff. Congrats on making it through :) I wonder if the experience would have been different in the Bay Area due to the sheer number of folks in a similar position?

elliotec 12y ago
Thanks! I'm sure it's more difficult for the people in the Bay Area because of the saturation. I saw that even in Seattle to a lesser extent.

mappmechanic 12y ago

It is nice to see your journey. I think 1 year of dedication is good time to achieve any target you set if you keep your focus.

bredren 12y ago

I have a cousin who has been taking beginner CS classes and is actively looking at the steps she can take to eventually move into a job in web programming. I've provided some feedback, but this first hand account is particularly useful. I've shared it with her. Thank you.

mooreds 12y ago

This was really really interesting. As someone who has been around for a while, it was great to see the journey through your eyes. One thing though. The fact that you were "offered a senior position in ruby, Rails, and front end development" after less than one year of development makes me worry about that "software development contractor company". I wonder if the OP would have felt comfortable being in a senior role. More thoughts on what makes someone 'senior' here: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/25564/when-should-you-call-yourself-a-senior-developer http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/25564/when-sh... (Hint, it isn't just time on the job.)

elliotec 12y ago
Honestly I was a bit taken aback by the offer as well. I think that a big part was how I built my reputation and supply and demand of developers in Salt Lake. They did a pretty heavy technical interview with me, (but no actual code writing, interestingly) and I did very well. So maybe I did get good enough that fast, but I think it was a combination of other factors that might've helped me more than my actual skill. I don't know if I would've been comfortable in that role. It may have played a part in me not accepting it. I know I wasn't comfortable with the team, and if they had to answer to me than it might have been an uncomfortable situation all around.
- mooreds 12y ago
  Fair enough. I wasn't sure if it was title inflation to bill end clients more. Good on ya for knocking that interview out of the park.
  - elliotec 12y ago
    That could definitely have been a factor as well. Thanks for the compliments!

opisa54yrip 12y ago

Sorry, but this is exactly why there is no point in believing of "front end developer" being a career that can offer a sustainable living, in the western world at least, in the coming years. Greetings, from somebody, who in the 90s, was a) still going to school and b) making 8.0000 - 10.000 DM per website, "on the side". Yeah, those where the times.. One question, just for fun: have you even heard of some "Zeldman"? (To the inclined: We coded to the DTD long before he got off print design. Because only coding to standards was cool on the usenet, already in the 90s :-) )

sosuke 12y ago
Get off my lawn! Just because this person didn't have to suffer like we did doesn't mean they won't be productive and make a living. Zeldman was great, but these new folks coming into the market are following DHH, bootstrapped rapid frameworks that scaffold it all. They are building quick and cool things, and will have years to figure out all the inner workings. It is a sustainable living, and if you don't sit on your hands it will be for some time. Though we might call ourselves something different by then right?
- girvo 12y ago
  I think your parents argument is that it isn't sustainable. If one can learn and be productive as quickly as the OP, then it follows that the developer "shortage" will only be temporary for this particular corner of the industry.
  - sosuke 12y ago
    Possibly, but we've seen a developer gold rush in the past and it doesn't last. Those who do shine through.
Bahamut 12y ago
What is wrong with frontend development? I don't quite understand your point. Most frontend web developers I have worked without are also competant to excellent backend web developers (or more). I'm not sure why they would be necessarily constrained to one domain, or why the domain is not important enough to hire for.

sosuke 12y ago

Congratulations you've entered the market at a golden time, be sure to keep sharp and keep learning because anyone sitting on their hands will be left behind. Again, welcome, and you've done it in just a year, so you've got all your career achievements ahead of you!

vonklaus 12y ago

This is an interesting story. I started teaching myself to code about 1 year ago. I started with html/css/scss and then moved to vanilla JS. Started working with a few frameworks and the command line, and then started a bootcamp. The bootcamp was a total disappointment, and I definitely don't feel like it was worth the money. I am applying for jobs now and it is tough. Like someone mentioned below, the transition is hard from bootcamp to jr dev role. I feel pretty competent in building applications, usually meanstack stuff and a bit of rails(like ruby not a huge fan of rails) and deploying via linux instances. While I understand that there is nothin to stop me from applying places, a lot of these companies want 5 years or a CS degree to do front-end development. I am started to get a little traction but it is tough. People with CS degrees often mock my lack of understanding of concepts like stack vs. heap memory, data structures, sort algorithims, etc, while applying for jobs they not only dont want to do themselves, but don't reqiuire that knowledge. Tl;dr congrats, it is a hard road to legitimacy for a self-taught developer.

Deebot 12y ago
Every time I hear a sob story about how it's hard to find a job as a "self taught developer", then find out that the person telling the story just started "self-teaching" a year ago... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
dkarapetyan 12y ago
People with CS degrees are just as clueless as everyone else. Pretty much every good developer I've worked with has not had a pure CS education. They've all had varied backgrounds and the only thing that ties them together is that they really enjoy solving problems.
eastbayjake 12y ago
Mind naming names about the bootcamp? I ask for two reasons: (1) Other people who are getting ready to shell out $10k for a bootcamp deserve to hear from dissatisfied alumni (2) There's a lot of negative press around bootcamps and the good ones shouldn't be lumped in with the bad ones. I had a great experience at Hack Reactor that set me up for interview success with data structures and algorithms, despite lacking a formal CS degree.

mikemee 12y ago

Congrats on working hard & smart and getting results. Also impressed by Starbucks' role in all of this. How many other companies would have supported you through that period and perhaps in some way made this possible for you! I can't say I like their coffee much, but I've always admired them as a company that values employees and your experience adds to their cred imnsho.